John Concialdi

I notice that there are still several threads comparing the AEM EMS and Hondata’s EFI system, and making inferences as to where our EFI system is positioned in the performance market. I would again like to stress that while BOTH systems have their merits, the AEM EMS and Hondata’s ECUs are different products intended for different markets.

The AEM Programmable EMS is a true, stand-alone system intended for knowledgeable, competent tuners who require complete control over all engine parameters and auxiliary devices. The Hondata system is useful for vehicles that have a given set of known engine parameters and do not require the ability to control auxiliary devices such as boost or nitrous controllers. Whereas the Hondata system is used as it comes programmed, the AEM EMS is flexible enough to use in, and can be calibrated to run, virtually any engine configuration. Furthermore, the AEM EMS comes with internal and external datalogging capabilities with no cost penalty to the consumer.

We market the AEM EMS as a user-programmable system, with the intent that the “user” has significant experience with engine management. We have stressed in our advertising and in editorial reviews that our EMS is intended for people who have taken the performance level of their vehicle beyond the capabilities of the factory ECU. In fact, if you call our sales line, every sales representative will tell you the same thing. Our packaging clearly indicates that misuse will cause engine damage, and our instructions clearly state that only a competent tuner should tune using the AEM EMS. The name “plug & play” indicates that Plug & Play EMS models DO NOT require rewiring the vehicle to use the system—Plug & Play EMS systems install in the factory harness. This does not mean that an inexperienced user can plug the system into their car and it will immediately run without a hitch.

We provide base maps with our Plug & Play EMS systems, but these maps are not “Magic Maps” that automatically make the car run. These maps are provided ONLY to get the engine started, and provide a starting point from which to tune. To get the best results using the AEM EMS, a dyno and air/fuel ratio monitor are required tools.

AEM’s EMS uses Windowsä-based software to make navigation and value entry easier than with DOS-based systems. This eliminates having to key in single-cell value entry. Experienced tuners will also appreciate that we are working on making simplifications to the user interface software that will enhance the user-friendliness of our system even further.

Ultimately, the best source for information about these systems is the respective companies. AEM welcomes your telephone calls and product inquiries and I am sure Hondata feels the same. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

Projekt20

Whoa!


-Trung

1fstevo

Thank you.

chri5

philo

John,
I think for the most part people realize that your system is far more sophisticated than Hondata's offerings. I don't think that point has been held to issue by anyone. What we are really discussing here is not which is a better system, but which is a better system for most of us.

I guess the issue most of us have is with the “Magic Maps”. On neither of the ECU’s I got could the base-maps “get the engine started”. As you know in both cases the fuel pump would not prime even with the appropriate parameter set (LS11 Fuel Pump). A few other folks have also emailed me asking how to resolve this issue.

When faced with undocumented idiosyncrasies like a hosed EEPROM, all the tuning experience in the world isn’t gonna make a bit of difference. I think the appropriate position to take would be to say that there are still issues with the system that are being worked out in subsequent versions of the software.

We come here to get impartial feedback from other users. Sometimes these forums are full-o-crap. But even amongst the BS we can get a pretty good idea about how a product will work if we get it. Calling a vendor is a necessary step when researching a product but will likely paint a pretty one sided picture.

It’s a great system and as you simplify the software and the learning curve softens, we will all have an easier time getting the most out of it.

98Psi ITR

Ben

sushibug

from the sounds of things, he sounds like he works at AEM. and to me, a big company like that taking time to post in a place like this shows real customer service and what not.

01geeser

hes the owner

SIK IN DA HED

thanks for the clarification

philo

John is the co-founder of AEM, but more specifically he's the lead developer of the EMS system. He is a good person to direct your ?'s to.

Anubyss

John, I would like to raise a simple question. I've heard AEM is still doing R & D on the EMS and was wondering if you had any plans to put out better base maps for specific applications. It would really save time (which equates to money) for most people that are having their cars tuned at a performance shop. I believe it would also generate more interest knowing the EMS comes with good base maps for tuners to start with.

apexii

Well said

boosted3g

I have seen 2 units also that the pump has not primed either. Has anyone found an answer to this problem? This seems to be a common occurance.

Austin

Interesting...glad that someone was able to speak directly to the consumer on a widespread basis. Thank you for your time.
Austin

X2BOARD

Thanks for taking the time, John.

We know that AEM is a quality brand. It should also be understood that the AEM EMS system is quite sophisticated and still a new product. I would imagine that as time goes by and more people use the system, we will have a much broader base of knowledge to program the system properly (tips and tricks?). I am researching an engine management system for a future upgrade and the AEM EMS is definitely on the top of my list thus far.

I have dealt with AEM in the past and found their customer service to be far superior to other companies that I have dealt with. When others have not been able to solve the problem, John himself takes the time to figure a fix, and given John's position, I would not have expected this level of service as quickly as was provided. I am impressed and will keep my ears to the ground for future upgrades to the programmability of this new system.

Thanks for posting !

DirtyLude

Actually I don't really understand the point of this post. Yes, the two systems are different, and they are also similar. As nice as this speech is, there IS an overlap in the market between these two systems. Especially the 4b and the AEM EMS. They may be marketed slightly different, but both systems are programmable engine management and both serve the needs of people looking for non-bandaid fuel/spark management. Both require that they be tuned on a dyno by a competent tuner. The price difference between the two for OBD II cars is not that great. People still have to make a choice between the two when going FI on a Honda/Acura and they want a plug and Play standalone. Each has it's own advantages and disadvantages, but it definitely does not put them in totaly seperate markets and for many people it will not be a clear choice between the two.

In most cases the USER is going to be the shop tuner who can blow up a Hondata controlled motor just as easily as an AEM EMS controlled motor. So neither is meant for a USER that doesn't have significant experience with engine management.

Edit: I'd just like to say though, that John is "the man"! He presented at the Toronto seminar and he is extremely knowledgeable about engine management. I wish I had asked more questions at the time.


[Modified by DirtyLude, 12:07 PM 3/20/2002]

philo

To prime the pump you need to go OPTIONS --> FULL LIST --> LS11 Fuel Pump (ON)

Post any more tips here: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=148911


[Modified by philo, 3:43 PM 3/20/2002]

John Concialdi

Philo,
Thanks for taking care of that for me. You obviously learned in Texas.
JC

Xerxes

John, I've been looking for the answer to this question but I keep getting different answers --

What exactly is the difference between the plug&play and full race ECUs? Are both based on the same basic ECU with different options and features? Or are they based on completely different systems?
If they're both the same, why does the race one cost more, when the plug&play version comes with extra harnesses pre-configured to a specific car?


One other question -- Why didn't AEM design in support for both low & high impedance injectors? I have heard from quite a few people who turned off by the fact that a resistor box is needed, since a lot of other engine management systems support both types (motec, tec II, etc)

thanks,
-Xerxes

John Concialdi

Anubyss,

To address your questions, we wanted to provide tuners with a wide variety of features that provide total control over any engine configuration...We realize now that providing this level of flexibility can, and has in some cases, made the set-up procedure somewhat difficult. To this end, we are in the process of simplifying the menus for every application (for example, we will have a VTEC menu, boost control menu, dual rpm limiter menu, etc).

As far as the base maps are concerned, the new Civic Si map in Version .50 will be available for download from our website tomorrow (be sure to download the upgraded software and firmware along with the cal file). We have a Civic Si equipped with a Vortech supercharger in the shop that is running perfectly with the new cal file and updated software. It runs 11 psi of boost, and has 310cc RC injectors, and we removed the FMU and all control devices provided by Vortech. We are logging miles on this vehicle and to-date we have not encountered any problems under all operational conditions.

Someone also asked the question about the training seminars we hold and whether or not they will be available to the public. For now, the response to our training seminars from our dealers and tuners has been tremendous, If we were to invite the public to these seminars too, we would not be able to control the crowd or make time for everyone. HOWEVER, we are in the process of putting together a NET meeting program that will allow us to have Internet training seminars online on a bi-weekly basis with everyone.

During these meetings we will have live computer training and discussions via teleconferencing on all EFI topics. We will have this implemented as soon as possible, so please keep checking our web site for information on this valuable service.

LsTurbo91

Anubyss

Thank you very much for the info John. I have to admit, the EMS is becoming more appealing to me daily. As more knowledge becomes available out there, be it through seminars or tuners, I am sure it'll become easier to configure the EMS properly. I still have about two weeks before having to make a decision, but seeing someone like John come to a forum to answer questions really makes me lean toward the AEM EMS.

John Concialdi

Xerxes,

With respect to software and features, there is virtually no difference between the Plug & Play and Race ECUs. The amount of features available to the end user may be limited by application due to the amount of available output locations left open in the original wire harness by the vehicle manufacturer. For example, the 1010 system that is used on the Civic Si and other late model Hondas utilizes a 104-pin connector, which allows you to take full advantage of all of the features the AEM PNP EMS has to offer. Conversely, for vehicles that use the 1000 system, only 76 of the 104 pins are accessible due to the manufacturer's design. Of course, for the Race system, all 104 pin outputs are available and enable all features to be used.

The Race system costs more because it includes a complete universal wiring harness. To accommodate additional features that may be desired by the end user on Plug & Play systems (boost control, nitrous control, etc), you will have to purchase additional sub wiring harnesses to run these devices.

We designed our ECU to run with high impedance injectors for now because we were concerned with running too much current on our board. This may have affected reliability. Most manufacturer ECUs are set up in this same manner, whether they have low-impedance injectors or not. In fact, 88-91 Hondas and third-generation Supras utilize low-impedance injectors and resistor boxes from the factory.

Xerxes

thanks for all the great answers! I will definitely take a serious look into the AEM system next time i build up a non-honda car (since i've already invested time and money into hondata for my current car).
for great support!

SW20 MR2

John,

Is there any update on the release of the Race system? I spoke to Kurt when the two of you were here in Toronto, and Kurt told me that you were waiting for the universal harnesses. I called your sales department, and they said that harnesses were in, but the unit was still 2-3 weeks away. Is there a firm ETA yet? Thanks.