Art those are Kinsler pumps as well? what size injecters are u runnin?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turtle-eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's running two walbros in parallel which makes the install a little harder but I the biggest down side to this is, if one pump goes out, the engine would still run normal at idle and part throttle but when in boost - extreme lean.

Anyone tried to running two pumps in series yet?</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is true, but in most cases if I'm on race gas running a fucck load of boost I'm dataloging and try to keep an eye on the afr's at all times..

Any pump can fail...

 

The chance of one pump completely failing is pretty small...1 pump is supporting 650whp, and the other really only needs to support another 50-100whp...so even if one pump starts failing...there is more than enough buffer to take up the slack.

 

under most of the bosch info it says its best to feed it with an intank pump...if i can make 650 on just a 255 and stock lines then a intank with -8 lines and another inline would work just fine....

does anyone know how well the stock intank sump/box works at 700 hp...?
i would liek to not have to weld a sump on my daily driver

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D@nnY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">under most of the bosch info it says its best to feed it with an intank pump...if i can make 650 on just a 255 and stock lines then a intank with -8 lines and another inline would work just fine....

does anyone know how well the stock intank sump/box works at 700 hp...?
i would liek to not have to weld a sump on my daily driver</TD></TR></TABLE>

700 is wayy to pushing it... for the filter intank setup. There won't be enough fuel that the bowl can contain. It's not all about the pump or the line size. It's about the amount of fuel that is available to be push out. You can run 10 bosch pump, but if the fuel is not there to go to 10 pumps, then what's the point.

Not all sump will works the same...I ran One-Fab sump that works bad ***... I made 680 at 24 psi when my oil pump took a **** and there was A LOT left. Matt made 760. We're both using single bosch pump and our fast-turbo fuel line kit.



There's plenty of ground clearance left. I can tell you guys how to make it. It's pretty easy to do and works very well...about $20 worth in material

stan

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The chance of one pump completely failing is pretty small...1 pump is supporting 650whp, and the other really only needs to support another 50-100whp...so even if one pump starts failing...there is more than enough buffer to take up the slack.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree on that as well...

Plus if one pump does fail due to electrical issues or whatnot, you can always install a low pressure warning light inside the car. There are couple of low oil/fuel pressure sender units available that triggers a circuit for a warning light whenever pressure drops below a certain PSI.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flamenco-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not all sump will works the same...I ran One-Fab sump that works bad ***... I made 680 at 24 psi when my oil pump took a **** and there was A LOT left. Matt made 760. We're both using single bosch pump and our fast-turbo fuel line kit.

stan
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stan, Can u please explain how come Art maxed his out at 650whp when he's running a nice sump and -8an lines?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbocivic94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Stan, Can u please explain how come Art maxed his out at 650whp when he's running a nice sump and -8an lines?</TD></TR></TABLE>

As I said, every setup is different. It's hard to compare apple to apple. I wasn't able to max out my pump since the damn oil pump took a **** ( I am still pissed about that, it happened 2 months ago LOL). At 680 ish, I was still able to keep going if the oil pump hadn't took a ****. Matt made 760 ish on the same setup i did for him.

There are not too many difference in combinations between my setup and Art's. I believe everything is the same except the sump. It's been a while since his car was at my shop, eventhough we built the both cars at the same time here at my shop.

I switched to the sump setup about 2 months ago. It wasn't needed at all, but since the car was down, Matt went ahead and did it for me.

Here's the list of power that I have made, keep in mind, i have switched setup like underwear

GT3767 T3/4 Full Race Manifold, I made 580, we turned the boost up wayyy too much and made 680-690 ish with 520 ft/lb. Stock head with springs and retainers. I actually made a pass at Maryland during elimination with a fuel light on LOL. Didn't starved out of fuel at all.

PT71-GTQ, One Fab top mount, I made 670 ish at 29-31 psi. Couldn't turn the boost any higher, we were having issues with the turbo. Stock head with springs and retainers

GT4202R, One Fab top mount, made 640 ish, turbo too big Stock head with springs and retainers

All of those power I made was still on the pick up tube setup on the fuel tank. No sump.

Last setup was the ITS72 with the sump and made 685 at 24-25 psi and oil pump took a ****.

As you can see I have made over 650 -680 ish with the single pump and 1/2" fuel pick up tube that we sell to everyone..

stan

 

Maybe the dyno at Rotary Performance reads low, Art trapped 147mph with 620whp on our dyno, Matt trapped 148 with 760 on Jason's dyno. I trapped 152 with 650 on our dyno.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flamenco-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

stan

</TD></TR></TABLE>

wow!!! Look who came out of hiding!!!! Were they trying to deport you??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe the dyno at Rotary Performance reads low, Art trapped 147mph with 620whp on our dyno, Matt trapped 148 with 760 on Jason's dyno. I trapped 152 with 650 on our dyno.</TD></TR></TABLE>

He was only able to run less than 20 psi on that run. and Houston is 10,000 ft baove sea level

I'll see you in a few LOL

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by espanol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

wow!!! Look who came out of hiding!!!! Were they trying to deport you?? </TD></TR></TABLE>

nah, I showed them my green card and I got off of it

I actually missed post whoring and this is fun hahaha please talk **** to me please please please

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flamenco-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

nah, I showed them my green card and I got off of it </TD></TR></TABLE>


It's good to see you back!!! I thought i was going to have to smuggle you back in the country in a container full of SSAutochrome manifolds.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by espanol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


It's good to see you back!!! I thought i was going to have to smuggle you back in the country in a container full of SSAutochrome manifolds. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's Taiwanese, you may have to smuggle me in a rice container. Or smuggle me to mexico and put me in the tortilla truck to texas LOL

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe the dyno at Rotary Performance reads low, Art trapped 147mph with 620whp on our dyno, Matt trapped 148 with 760 on Jason's dyno. I trapped 152 with 650 on our dyno.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Matt trapped 148 with the boost at 18psi. Weve never been able to make a pass with the boost up. Something always breaks.

So far I havent been able to max out the bosch pump. We are installing teh Fast-turbo fuel system on a K24 EG hatch that already made 640ish and Im sure the pump will provide enough fuel to make over 700whp.

 

i don't see how the sumps can be that different to improve the available fuel, as it seems that the drop down tube into the top of the tank if the tank was full, would have just the same ability to pull fuel as a sump would, unless i'm missing something big?

 

I was going to run a 255 hp intank and weld a -8 fitting on the top of the cover plate, and run -8 lines to this 255 hp walboro inline with an aeromotive 10 micron filter

 

I just made 709whp on 1000's injectors. i want to say base fuel pressure was around 45psi.
The injector duty cycle was at 108%, but St00pid was still able to give it enough fuel to make it go rich again, so i dont think we are out of fuel.
Its -10 from the sump to the fuel rail with the factory feed as the new return.
Just thought i should say this fuel system will support 700+ hp Thanks Stan!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alopez84 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just made 709whp on 1000's injectors. i want to say base fuel pressure was around 45psi.
The injector duty cycle was at 108%, but St00pid was still able to give it enough fuel to make it go rich again, so i dont think we are out of fuel.
Its -10 from the sump to the fuel rail with the factory feed as the new return.
Just thought i should say this fuel system will support 700+ hp Thanks Stan! </TD></TR></TABLE>

hondata I assume? i know i've been able to push injectors to 120% duty cycle on hondata for some unknown reason

 

Sorry forgot to mention its on AEM

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by st00pid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Matt trapped 148 with the boost at 18psi. Weve never been able to make a pass with the boost up. Something always breaks.

So far I havent been able to max out the bosch pump. We are installing teh Fast-turbo fuel system on a K24 EG hatch that already made 640ish and Im sure the pump will provide enough fuel to make over 700whp.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You'll be putting one on a b18 eg hatch soon too, right?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by seen4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

hondata I assume? i know i've been able to push injectors to 120% duty cycle on hondata for some unknown reason</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm pretty sure it estimates Duty Cycle....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm pretty sure it estimates Duty Cycle....</TD></TR></TABLE>

ohh, i've gathered that, just that with the autronic ecu's i've seen, if injector hits 100%, its done, no more fuel, with hondata, i've noticed you can lay on them more.

 

So is anyone actually logging fuel pressure at these power levels? We did a back to back on art's car with 1 pump vs. 2. The single pump on ran exactly like it did before the conversion. With both pumps on it got so rich by 7k that it lost 75hp and started misfiring. I had to pull a ton of fuel out to get back to where it was with 1 pump. This was with brand new filters too. So, tell me this, if fuel pressure was not falling with 1, why did it make such a difference with 2? I could have kept adding fuel with the 1 pump, but it's not right. I can tell from the fuel map when the pump stops keeping up because the fuel map doesn't follow the curve it did at lower boost. If bosch and everyone who has specs on these pumps says 650-725 BHP, why will it magically make more on a honda motor? Our BSFC's aren't THAT great.

 

A lil flow chart info for some intank fuel pumps to compare

Pump Manufacturer Part # Volts PSI Amps Ltr/Hr
43 6 168.45
Walbro GSS-250 12.5 58 7 145.11
73 8 88.96
Walbro "190" LPH
43 6.5 208.83
Walbro GSS-250 14 58 7.5 162.78
73 9.5 104.10



Pump Manufacturer Part # Volts PSI Amps Ltr/Hr
43 7.5 229.02
Walbro GSS-317 12.5 58 9 201.89
73 10.5 147.00
Walbro "255" LPH
43 8 261.83
Walbro GSS-317 14 58 10 230.92
73 11.5 182.97



Pump Manufacturer Part # Volts PSI Amps Ltr/Hr
43 7 233.4
Walbro GSS-342 12.5 58 9 210.10
73 10.5 189.3
Walbro "255" LPH High Pressure
43 8 264.4
Walbro GSS-342 14 58 9.5 242.9
73 11 220.8



Pump Manufacturer Part # Volts PSI Amps Ltr/Hr
43 15 258.04
Denso 195130-1020 12.5 58 16 227.13
73 18 190.54
Denso 260 LPH Supra Pump
43 17 296.53
Denso 195130-1020 14 58 19 270.03
73 21 239.75

the last pump is a twin turbo supra which according to this chart flows better than a 255l walbro