boost/ trans opinions needed
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From: Tampa, FL
Re: (gogunkergorilla)
Your first post.....
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gogunkergorilla »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The higher the power the longer the gears need to be. You guys may not realize that b16 tranny was designed for more torque amplification on a low torque engine. Turbo engines have a lot more torque and do not need to take advantage of this. If your using a stock b16 tranny on a high hp engine you are likely not utilizing the engines full potential (limiting power so you can get traction, shifting more than necessary).
One of the best things to do utilize more power and get better traction is either to use a larger wheel diameter or lower the final drive. This keeps the ratios close for narrow powerbands, and lowers the torque amplification (which is useless on high torque engines).</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gogunkergorilla »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If long gears are so bad for acceleration then why are the fastest cars running 4 gear configurations capable of 200 mph as opposed to adding more gears to reach that speed? On a b16 tranny you would have to rev over 12000 rpm to reach that.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gogunkergorilla »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I don't know if your too stupid to realize but everything I've been saying all along you just said you do and your arguing with me about it
. Go back to my first post, I suggested a larger wheel diameter and lower final drive. Ideally a lower final drive as opposed to a larger wheel since it will have less inertial mass. Either way, higher hp cars run longer gearing via wheel diameter, final drive or changing the gears altogether. The LS tranny just sucks because the gears are spaced too far apart which is why a b16 or ITR tranny is the best place to start.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Lol. Am I getting under your skin....or you just need to be cool and call people stupid on the net. The fact of the matter is.....you said....B16 tranny is not the way to go. And you also said a lower final drive keeps the power band narrow.
Why is it that most guys run larger tires/slicks vs. lower final drives?
And what tranny is in your car and what does it run at the track?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gogunkergorilla »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The higher the power the longer the gears need to be. You guys may not realize that b16 tranny was designed for more torque amplification on a low torque engine. Turbo engines have a lot more torque and do not need to take advantage of this. If your using a stock b16 tranny on a high hp engine you are likely not utilizing the engines full potential (limiting power so you can get traction, shifting more than necessary).
One of the best things to do utilize more power and get better traction is either to use a larger wheel diameter or lower the final drive. This keeps the ratios close for narrow powerbands, and lowers the torque amplification (which is useless on high torque engines).</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gogunkergorilla »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If long gears are so bad for acceleration then why are the fastest cars running 4 gear configurations capable of 200 mph as opposed to adding more gears to reach that speed? On a b16 tranny you would have to rev over 12000 rpm to reach that.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gogunkergorilla »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I don't know if your too stupid to realize but everything I've been saying all along you just said you do and your arguing with me about it
. Go back to my first post, I suggested a larger wheel diameter and lower final drive. Ideally a lower final drive as opposed to a larger wheel since it will have less inertial mass. Either way, higher hp cars run longer gearing via wheel diameter, final drive or changing the gears altogether. The LS tranny just sucks because the gears are spaced too far apart which is why a b16 or ITR tranny is the best place to start.</TD></TR></TABLE>Lol. Am I getting under your skin....or you just need to be cool and call people stupid on the net. The fact of the matter is.....you said....B16 tranny is not the way to go. And you also said a lower final drive keeps the power band narrow.
Why is it that most guys run larger tires/slicks vs. lower final drives?
And what tranny is in your car and what does it run at the track?
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: handing you your ass
Re: (Blown90hatcH)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blown90hatcH »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your first post.....
Lol. Am I getting under your skin....or you just need to be cool and call people stupid on the net. The fact of the matter is.....you said....B16 tranny is not the way to go. And you also said a lower final drive keeps the power band narrow.
Why is it that most guys run larger tires/slicks vs. lower final drives?
And what tranny is in your car and what does it run at the track?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Care to explain why those statements aren't true? Did I overlook something? I'd be more than happy to justify my reasoning if you can tell me why you disagree.
I don't drag race my personal car but it's an H22 with an ATR tranny (like an ITR).
Lol. Am I getting under your skin....or you just need to be cool and call people stupid on the net. The fact of the matter is.....you said....B16 tranny is not the way to go. And you also said a lower final drive keeps the power band narrow.
Why is it that most guys run larger tires/slicks vs. lower final drives?
And what tranny is in your car and what does it run at the track?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Care to explain why those statements aren't true? Did I overlook something? I'd be more than happy to justify my reasoning if you can tell me why you disagree.
I don't drag race my personal car but it's an H22 with an ATR tranny (like an ITR).
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Re: (gogunkergorilla)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gogunkergorilla »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Care to explain why those statements aren't true? Did I overlook something? I'd be more than happy to justify my reasoning if you can tell me why you disagree.
I don't drag race my personal car but it's an H22 with an ATR tranny (like an ITR).</TD></TR></TABLE>
nice to see a bench racer trying to disprove a real racer... THEORY FTW
Care to explain why those statements aren't true? Did I overlook something? I'd be more than happy to justify my reasoning if you can tell me why you disagree.
I don't drag race my personal car but it's an H22 with an ATR tranny (like an ITR).</TD></TR></TABLE>
nice to see a bench racer trying to disprove a real racer... THEORY FTW
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Joined: Nov 2004
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From: 40.201N, 77.189W, PA
Re: (gogunkergorilla)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gogunkergorilla »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Care to explain why those statements aren't true? Did I overlook something? I'd be more than happy to justify my reasoning if you can tell me why you disagree.
I don't drag race my personal car but it's an H22 with an ATR tranny (like an ITR).</TD></TR></TABLE>
Then why are you trying to tell us about real world results when you have none??? You're arguing with someone that has tested several things and found results, not to mention many of us have been just learning from the results of our other peers on here to what works and what doesn't, and combining that with our own experiences.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gogunkergorilla »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, consider a small wheel and a large wheel spinning at the same speed, the larger wheel will accomplish more work in the same span of time (i.e. accelerate faster). As long as torque is constant along the rpm range the rate of acceleration will be constant.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Do you mean the outsides of the wheels spinning at the same speed, or the centers of the wheels spinning at the same speed? If the centers of wheels are spinning at the same speed, then it takes longer for the larger wheel to do more work. If the outsides of the wheels are spinning at the same rate, that's impossible with an engine at the same rpm.
p.s. And I promise you, no 200 mph geared SFWD car is going to be competitive. You're failing to take into account variables outside of textbook theory, which lacks them.
Care to explain why those statements aren't true? Did I overlook something? I'd be more than happy to justify my reasoning if you can tell me why you disagree.
I don't drag race my personal car but it's an H22 with an ATR tranny (like an ITR).</TD></TR></TABLE>
Then why are you trying to tell us about real world results when you have none??? You're arguing with someone that has tested several things and found results, not to mention many of us have been just learning from the results of our other peers on here to what works and what doesn't, and combining that with our own experiences.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gogunkergorilla »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, consider a small wheel and a large wheel spinning at the same speed, the larger wheel will accomplish more work in the same span of time (i.e. accelerate faster). As long as torque is constant along the rpm range the rate of acceleration will be constant.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Do you mean the outsides of the wheels spinning at the same speed, or the centers of the wheels spinning at the same speed? If the centers of wheels are spinning at the same speed, then it takes longer for the larger wheel to do more work. If the outsides of the wheels are spinning at the same rate, that's impossible with an engine at the same rpm.
p.s. And I promise you, no 200 mph geared SFWD car is going to be competitive. You're failing to take into account variables outside of textbook theory, which lacks them.
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From: handing you your ass
Re: (Honda Bull)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda Bull »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Do you mean the outsides of the wheels spinning at the same speed, or the centers of the wheels spinning at the same speed? If the centers of wheels are spinning at the same speed, then it takes longer for the larger wheel to do more work. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Your wrong. But I gave my own statement some thought and there is something missing with it that I have to correct. A larger wheel has a larger circumference which will cover more area in a single rotation. If done in the same span of time it will have accomplished more work. The thing is, it requires more torque to spin it in proportion to its radius, and would force an engine to operate at a lower rpm relative to the speed of the wheel (like a longer gear). The thing I need to correct is that in order for it to cover more distance in the same time, more torque must be applied to the ground, but larger tires have a larger contact patch which does yield more traction therefore a higher coefficient of friction and more torque capacity. But if traction is still a problem with bigger tires than a lower final drive is the way to go.
Do you mean the outsides of the wheels spinning at the same speed, or the centers of the wheels spinning at the same speed? If the centers of wheels are spinning at the same speed, then it takes longer for the larger wheel to do more work. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Your wrong. But I gave my own statement some thought and there is something missing with it that I have to correct. A larger wheel has a larger circumference which will cover more area in a single rotation. If done in the same span of time it will have accomplished more work. The thing is, it requires more torque to spin it in proportion to its radius, and would force an engine to operate at a lower rpm relative to the speed of the wheel (like a longer gear). The thing I need to correct is that in order for it to cover more distance in the same time, more torque must be applied to the ground, but larger tires have a larger contact patch which does yield more traction therefore a higher coefficient of friction and more torque capacity. But if traction is still a problem with bigger tires than a lower final drive is the way to go.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Newark, DE
I currently run an LS w/ Quaife in my car, I run it 585whp on the street w/ 205/50/15 BFG's, I have never had a GSR tranny in the car but the tranny is currently out to replace with a GSR. Obviously 2nd gear is pretty much useless in the LS but I use to tach it out to 80pmh in 2nd gear and basically dead hook 3rd gear with the LS, and it would put the power down. I highly doubt with the GSR in it now that I will have that kind of traction in 3rd that I had with the LS. As noted many times in this thread, if you dont race much, the LS is the way to go but if you run at the track, stick to GSR/B16.
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From: 40.201N, 77.189W, PA
Re: (gogunkergorilla)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gogunkergorilla »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Your wrong. But I gave my own statement some thought and there is something missing with it that I have to correct. A larger wheel has a larger circumference which will cover more area in a single rotation. If done in the same span of time it will have accomplished more work. The thing is, it requires more torque to spin it in proportion to its radius, and would force an engine to operate at a lower rpm relative to the speed of the wheel (like a longer gear). The thing I need to correct is that in order for it to cover more distance in the same time, more torque must be applied to the ground, but larger tires have a larger contact patch which does yield more traction therefore a higher coefficient of friction and more torque capacity. But if traction is still a problem with bigger tires than a lower final drive is the way to go.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not exactly wrong. You either need more torque production (which isn't necessarily possible in every case), or... da... da... da...da... shorter gearing (whether that be different final or individual gears). You are just assuming one can change any variable to suit the situation, and it won't always work that way. We aren't against raising or lowering torque production... by boost-by-gear, we can change it based on what the tires can take as they move down the track.
And what data do you have that proves a lower final drive works better than shorter actual gears with a higher final drive? Not saying it won't work better, but you seem very confident without actually testing it in the real world.
Your wrong. But I gave my own statement some thought and there is something missing with it that I have to correct. A larger wheel has a larger circumference which will cover more area in a single rotation. If done in the same span of time it will have accomplished more work. The thing is, it requires more torque to spin it in proportion to its radius, and would force an engine to operate at a lower rpm relative to the speed of the wheel (like a longer gear). The thing I need to correct is that in order for it to cover more distance in the same time, more torque must be applied to the ground, but larger tires have a larger contact patch which does yield more traction therefore a higher coefficient of friction and more torque capacity. But if traction is still a problem with bigger tires than a lower final drive is the way to go.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not exactly wrong. You either need more torque production (which isn't necessarily possible in every case), or... da... da... da...da... shorter gearing (whether that be different final or individual gears). You are just assuming one can change any variable to suit the situation, and it won't always work that way. We aren't against raising or lowering torque production... by boost-by-gear, we can change it based on what the tires can take as they move down the track.
And what data do you have that proves a lower final drive works better than shorter actual gears with a higher final drive? Not saying it won't work better, but you seem very confident without actually testing it in the real world.
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From: 40.201N, 77.189W, PA
Re: (96 GSR-T)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96 GSR-T »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I highly doubt with the GSR in it now that I will have that kind of traction in 3rd that I had with the LS. As noted many times in this thread, if you dont race much, the LS is the way to go but if you run at the track, stick to GSR/B16.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sounds about right, although I'm kinda against using anything close to that power on the street.
Sounds about right, although I'm kinda against using anything close to that power on the street.
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From: Newark, DE
Re: (Honda Bull)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda Bull »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Sounds about right, although I'm kinda against using anything close to that power on the street.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am not right in the head
Sounds about right, although I'm kinda against using anything close to that power on the street.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I am not right in the head
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