94delsol-b16a

Im in the process of a b16 turbo build. I was hoping to get some opinions on turbo setup? My original choice was a t3/t67 but figured it would be way to laggy. Currently im looking at a sc61 or gt35r. or is there something i need to look at? looking for low 400 whp. Something that i can take to the drags on the weekends. but a fun daily driver. Also should i run a 44mm wastegate or will a 38mm be good enough?

Current Setup:
b16a
Stock everything but eagle rods and 81.5mm cp pistons.
Was going to go with the stock b16 tranny but im not sure if i should swap out for GSR?

Any help would be useful

blinx9900

First slow down, relax, your throwing around a lot of words there mostly stuff you don't need. ALL the turbo's you mention are far too large for your application.

The largest turbo you should consider is a s256 or a GT3076R, each is 525whp capable. A gt35r on a 1.6 spools VERY late, i have a b16a block with a b16b head and currently using a gt3076r, at 12psi i have 333whp, my guess is with as little as 18psi i can make 400whp, the turbo spools fairly early and comes on hard, i personally think its a perfect match. Anything bigger is just a waste.

Keep the b16 tranny, I have a b16b tranny which is the same gearing but with LSD and some other minor differences. I suggest you just add an LSD to it, MFactory recently came out with some VERY competitively priced LSD's.

94delsol-b16a

Thanks for you opinion. Bump any one else?

Joseph Davis

Low CR B16 can be a little on the doggy side unless you crank the boost controller.

I'd rather have a T3/T67 on a B16 than a GT30xx. I have a very pronounced distaste for GT30, they spool very late and when they spool the turbo hits so hard you can't "pedal" them to control the boost. I tuned a 98 EX coupe with 8.5:1 CR B16, Skank2 Stage 2 cams, T3/T67 combo last summer... it spooled late, was a PITA getting the idle correct and having the car make good power due to low CR and cams that were too big for a small 1.6 liter, but on the street it was amazingly driveable due to the B16 gearin. I was hating on the car before taking it out on the street to do tip ins/outs; I was double fisting the hateraid, but I now stand corrected. The GT3076R ITR I tuned the same day that made 25 whp more (425 vs 450) wasn't as fast as it had traction issues @ spool due to the sudden hammer like onset of torque. I think the GT30xx series is an all-around bad design for a streetcar, and underpowered for a drag car, and cannot recommend them. They must work well for some application that isn't a D or B series Honda, but suck for those engines.

So, you see, nothing is really as simple as it seems if you take one single aspect like spool into account.

All that being said, you want a plain jane inexpensive T3/T04E. A .57 or .60 trim compressor would give you plenty of headroom as they lay down 450-475 whp and spool a lot faster than anything else mentioned, and can be had a lot cheaper than anything else mentioned. You can also successfully "pedal" them when trying to get traction on a first-second gear shift, which really makes a big difference in living with the car.

Word of warning, every time I have a head gasket seal problem or break a stock sleeve it's on a B16. For 400 whp I'd grab a $100 B18B (avoid B18A) bottom end and enjoy the much larger midrange they provide. Anything past 400, or needing more than 8-8.5K I really recommend a GSR bottom end as it has a girdle, or fitting a GSR/aftermarket girdle to the LS, but that's getting into the performance range where **** retentive people sleeve their blocks.

Boostage

Jdavis always makes the most hilarious tech responses lol

Joseph Davis

I'm an opinionated asshat, but I try to steer people right.

blinx9900

Oh haaaaiiiiiillllll no you di-enT!!!!!!

I have a 8.3:1 b16 running a GT3076r and LOVE it, i previously had a t3/t04e 57trim also but CR at that time was 10.8.

I disagree on a few notes, first that you consider all GT30's equally crappy, the 3071, 3076, and 3040 are all completely different and act differently, i wish i knew which 30R you are basing your opinion on.

I agree that the 3071 and 3040 are useless but the 3076 has a good place on B series engines. 3071 hardly has less lag than the 3076 and makes a lot less power so might as well get a GT28RS, the 3040 makes only a little more than the 3076 and has a lot more lag so a 35r is a better option but the 3076 is a great middle street turbo imo.

On my car it spools faster than the 57 trim i had which was also a BB unit, it makes more power with less boost, its easier to control on part throttle and i feel the power while comes on hard is progressive enough to control, then again i drive on NT01's.

I would honestly think a Journal bearing would be more on/off than a GT3076 and traction issues are not the turbo's fault. But we all have our own opinions on what is and is not acceptable so this is mostly relative.

Joseph Davis

Which has nothing to do with spool properties.

Never touched the GT3040R, been through a few of the other two including one of the T25 flanged GT3071R which is a steamy pile of fail. Never been impressed, all spooled late, all made 2-3 psi immediately then hit 4.5-5K depending on displacement and spooled like lightning. A decent T3/T04E on a 1.8+ liter has 15+ psi by 4000 rpms and is capable of a hair more power for a fraction of the price.



The T25 flange GT3071R replaced a GT28RS on a D16Z6, the car made 85 whp more peak (410 whp vs 325 whp) but the powerband was much narrower and it hit so late it's basically worthless. He went from 7.5-7.6 in the 1/8th to 7.4-7.5 in the 1/8th, not worth the time/effort/expense.


You realise my relative is based off of 30-35 cars running these turbos and not two turbos on the same car with slightly different permutations of B16? There are so many small quirks that can be "wrong" that will cause turbos to spool early/late that unless you are intimately familiar with what a given turbo does on a given engine/manifold/cam combo that it's really easy to form the wrong conclusions.

94delsol-b16a

So can i have a daily driver b16 with 400 whp. with out cracking sleeves. i know there is a great debate about them but if i get a great tune will it hold?

blinx9900

Never said it did, just mentioning it since you mentioned low CR b16's being annoying, i was bringing up that i have experienced both low and high CR+turbo setups.


I could certainly imagine the T25 flanged 3071 being full of fail, i consider the regular 3071 fail as it is. I believe the 3076 is more capable in the power dept than a t3/t04e, i had a friend make north of 530whp on a 3076r. I'm gonna try and get you a boost plot, my turbo comes on smooth, thats why i love it so much.

Also worth noting when i refer to any GT series turbo i am only referring to genuine Garrett turbo's, i consider the Precision units to be different and horrible, i have seen a Garrett GT40R outspool a Precision 35R on the same car.



Well i agree the 3071 is a useless turbo so no argument there.


I know who you are and what you do, my relative is also based on a good bit of experience, while not as much as you i have been doing this for 9 years now, i worked for a tuner, i drove nearly every car that came in after the tuning was complete to make sure everything was proper, that's why no matter what i consider a lot of this relative.

Not trying to sound like a dick or know it all, I'm just too lazy to type it all up nice and polite, plus i know you have a thick skin