hmmmmm when tuning an air to water setup...do you need to retune if you drastically reduce water temps(via ice)??? or one tune does it all?

if the water ws 50 degrees..what kind of charge temps would you see?and how much power gain

 

Fuel injection systems take air temp into account when figuring fuel input, but they're not always right in thier calculations. It's a good idea to put the car back on the dyno and tune it both ways. If you have a good engine managment system then you can adjust the fuel enrichment vs. air temp map and get it dialed in just right. Our water temp is 33 deg. and with a good intercooler our air temps are around 80deg. at the t/b. That's with outlet temps at the turbo at 325deg. Those temps are with the spearco, the pwr only cooled to 120deg. If you're gonna do it, go with a spearco or precision intercooler, they're MUCH better than the pwr. Anyways, going from 120 deg. inlet temp to 80 deg. inlet temp should make quite a bit more power. It's hard to say how much exactly, but it's enough to justify the additional weight on a race car, and weight is the last thing you want on a race car!!

 

<Puts on his PWR flame suit>

I wanna stick around for this. :evil:

 

You're referring the air/water intercoolers with this comparison right?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Our water temp is 33 deg. and with a good intercooler our air temps are around 80deg. at the t/b. That's with outlet temps at the turbo at 325deg. Those temps are with the spearco, the pwr only cooled to 120deg. If you're gonna do it, go with a spearco or precision intercooler, they're MUCH better than the pwr. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

you will need a lot higher BTU compressor than is in that coleman cooler. Do alot more research into HVAC. I have a system planned to keep the water at -45C.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh, and lag from an air to air will be unnoticable, almost unmeasureable. If you realized how fast the air flowed and how much air an engine in boost uses, then you would understand that the length of the pipes won't make a difference unless they are 25 feet long.</TD></TR></TABLE> time taken to compress the intake charge is the only thing that creates lag, hence, u double the intake charge volume, u double the lag. just take a look at an original equipment setup, see if they run extra long pipes.

 

So you're saying that if the turbo was mated straight to the throttle body then there would be no lag, correct? Why is it that when you install a bigger turbo with all other things being equal you will have more lag? Lag is a caused by a combination of things, a very minor detail being ic pipe volume. For the most part, lag is determined by turbine and compressor sizing. Do a little more homework...

 

Tony is right. Lag is mostly the time it takes to spin the exhaust to speed. Everything else is minor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dennis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You're referring the air/water intercoolers with this comparison right?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was referring to water to air, but while we're on the subject...

The pwr air/air intercoolers don't have as many turbulators inside the intercooler as xs or spearco do. A turbulators job is to see that no laminar airflow ever exists inside the core. When this is done well, each charge air molecule will get its chance to snuggle up to the core walls and exchange it's heat energy with the wall. If turbulators are dense then heat exchange is better, but flow loss is greater. Conversely, no turbulators at all would yeild minimal flow losses, but heat exchange would be lousy. The PWR's that i've seen have very little turbulators compared to most. They should work good for low boost applications, but not so good for high boost. The pwr's are like the greddy ic's for hondas. Greddy even says they aren't recommended for over 15psi.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So you're saying that if the turbo was mated straight to the throttle body then there would be no lag, correct? Why is it that when you install a bigger turbo with all other things being equal you will have more lag? Lag is a caused by a combination of things, a very minor detail being ic pipe volume. For the most part, lag is determined by turbine and compressor sizing. Do a little more homework...</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok, ok so i exaggerated/lied. i think my point is that charge size has a bigger effect on lag than most people think, and should not be overlooked. god is in the details of car modification and if you want to build a fast car nothing should be overlooked, no matter how small the gain, as they will all end up counting at the end of the day. This theory has always worked well for my family for decades. time to spin a turbo up is a completely separate issue and the ways of improving this are independant of the things mentioned here, tho both have an effect on the delay between the application of throttle and appropriate release of power.