TheProfessional

What I have here is a project that I've for the most part finished about $80.

The motor is a D15B7, ACL Race bearings, Shotpeened Rods, ARP Connecting rod bolts and Wrist Pins, ARP Studs, ported and polished head and a super-tech Valvetrain kit. The Turbo is a T3/T4, Tapped Oil Pan, intercooled, the whole 9 yards everything done right.


My TARGET Goal is really 200whp, granted I have stronger, beefier internals I still don't wanna try to put 300hp through this motor (i've had it about 2-3 years after I built it it's not up there in age, it's passed all the leak down and compression testing). My issue is that now I have to Spring for a Boost Controller, but my issue is the Injectors.

I am running an S300, And I will be going in for tuning soon, but i'm split between what I should use, for Daily, Low Boost, with the S300 could I get by with 300cc injectors??? Should I rock 550's? Or Spring for the 720's??? AT MOST, I will be running 8-10psi and I'm trying to avoid unnecessary spending, if a certain Injector will help me reach my goal i'd prefer to measure once, cut once yanno?

doood

iTrader: (1)

720 or bigger so you have room to grow

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

550s.

OneBadTurboCRV

Just so you know you didn't exactly do anything that is going to help you support much over the "accepted" stock 220whp limit. Maybe 230-250whp TOPS, though doubtful. The size of the injectors don't mean a thing for daily driving. That is all in the tune. You size injectors by fuel type and requirement. At stock base fuel pressure 450cc and up will be plenty for your goals. Less cc's will most likely require turning up the fuel pressure. This will effectively shorten the life of the injectors. If you say it's done right, why wouldn't you want to continue on some of THE most important parts of the whole system?

civickiller

i say 720's, leaves room for more hp

TheProfessional

Well for the most part I agree with what you're saying.

- I know that running smaller CC injectors leaves room for the possibility of running lean. Yes a leaner mixture could mean more HP but it also leaves more room for Det'ng even on 91 octane. My goal is to get the base figure or the smallest CC's I can run, SAFELY.

-The CC's in this case would be important for Daily, as stated in my prior point I need the car to last, I need the most reliability in exchange for power (Rich over lean) that I can get safely tuned into this car so that I don't run the risk of mucking it up yanno?

-As far as the 250whp, i think i've done a substantial amount. The bottom end is built stronger then stock, I'm running a ported and polished head with oversied valves and a tougher valvetrain with the stock pistons. I've seen bone stock applications with a sick tune, same size turbo, put down 200whp with 6psi. I don't think it's inconceivable that with this set up, this size turbo, a tune off of the s300, I could see north of 250 (even though I don't want to) on even 8pounds.

-When I say it was done RIGHT, I meant that I didn't short cut and I assembled everything for the most part correctly. I believe it's a solid build I mean here is my whole parts list, let me know if I've done something wrong.


D15B7 Block
Stock Crank (Mic'd and serviced)
ACL Race Bearings
ARP Connecting Rod bolts, Wrist Pins and Head Studs
Shotpeened ROds
Stock Pistons
Ported and Polished Head w/Oversized valves
Mullins Oil Pump
Supertech Valvetrain
Stock Camshaft (Currently thinking of installing the Blox Stage 1 I got)
Stage 2 Clutch
9lb Flywheel
Rebuilt trans with Carbon Synchros
T3/T4 Turbo
Garret Intercooler
Stainless Exhaust Manifold
Tial Wastegate
Tial Blowoff Valve
Aluminum Charge Piping
S300 ECU

[To be installed]
--330/550/720cc Injectors
--225lph Fuel Pump
--Steel braided Fuel lines
--AEM Fuel Rail


Am I not doing this right???


At this point I'm leaning toward 720, leaving room for more HP does make a bit of sense, but More HP means I'd have to toughen up the bottom end, and i don't plan on breaking this motor open any time soon, if at all. So my powergoals are fixed, I don't WANT more then 250, 260-70 would be the cutt off, can I run below that, tuning with 330/550/720cc pistons, is my main question with my current set up.

egb18dx

440's to 550's would be your best bet. 720 is actually kinda of a over kill for your build unless your wanting to make over 300+. Your guna get better mpg with 440's over the 720's unless you really don't care. But you'll make your 250 goal easy with 440's. But sounds like you have a nice build going on so whatever you choose good luck with it man.

OneBadTurboCRV

WOW, is all I have to say. Neither of you get it at all... YOU TUNE THE VEHICLE NO MATTER WHAT INJECTORS YOU HAVE!!! This will be the determining factor to what reliability, gas milage, power, safety factor, ect, ect... I can tell you have no clue what you are talking about "The Professional"; I would love to see you push 250+ on a factory rod and create another picture of carnage for the Internet. The problem is they bend between the big and small ends. Shot peening only does so much, and is COMPLETELY dependant on how good the rod was cast to begin with.

D Series can't handle rev's or power anywhere near like a B-series can in stock form. I think you are blending your information. Also, I think you need to recheck your parts list, because I see a lot of eBay stuff in place of what you are listing. Also, for your power goals, touching the top end was a complete waste of money. A rich versus lean scenario isn't exactly what you believe it is either. Timing is an important factor to detonation as well... This is why tuning is important. You can be too little and too much for timing and fuel and ruin the engine. I am just talking extreme basics here, but you should take it to a reputable tuner if you want the upmost reliability. You have a LOT to learn.

TheProfessional

I don't think that's being disputed. A tune is the most essential aspect of a Turbo build without a shout of a doubt, regardless of the hardware being used, if the tune isn't sufficient it will all be in Vain. We get it.



Again, I agree, A tune will account for those factors, even MORE so then the hardware being used. Now You're getting insulting because you believe you're being disagreed with, or better stated, i'm not praising you or jocking your ideals but quite frankly, my Screen name has nothing to do with the fact that there are infact a surplus of Stock-Internal Boosted Civics, Putting down north of 250hp all over. I own a house in PA and NJ, I spend equal time in either area, in either Honda Scene, with tuners from both states, it's not only DO-ABLE, but these are set ups being Daily'd for YEARS -----mind you half these set ups have LESS put into their motor then mine. I mean you could even go on YOUTUBE and See it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImMsm56XLEo <---I've seen this car in person and am friends with a few friends of the owner, at the time of the Dyno it's bone stock, small turbo and out down north of 250 on it's tune at 12psi.

Not gonna flood this thread with links, but it's there, and being done. OFTEN. I think you should accept this and not get offended, it's not the turth because I say it so, it's POSSIBLE because people are DOING IT.



I can SPEAK that the casting is good, I have a reputable place, they've done my rods before in my H builds and B series builds and i've YET to have a problem with them. Keeping in mind that BEFORE I actually boosted this motor, I did run it Naturally Aspirated with no issues. Shotpeening only does so much, but over a Stock rod?? It's a Considerable increase in durability and endurance, especially when combined with a better balanced crank, ACL's and ARP hardware, not to mention an upgraded Oil Pump that will be more then sufficient in keeping with the presumably higher rev-ranges I could see through boosting. At the end of the day, My bottom end---IS NOT STOCK. So you can't hold those limitations captive at the expensive of my bottom end when infact it has been strengthened.



Some would disagree. Once again my block isn't STOCK, combined with my head word I've taken my motor up to 8200 consistently during runs (still pulling). An LS motor taps out after 7500, H motors peak around the same, lower if it's a H23, only the V-tec variants could lay claim to high peaks---AND B & D motors Boosted, in stock, semi built, or Built form ALL can withstand AT LEAST 250whp before you approach the constructed limits of the motors design. I think you should stop allowing your opinion to reign as if it is authority. I respect your opinion, I just don't believe them to be fact.




D15B7 Block - From my old car
Stock Crank (Mic'd and serviced) - Purchased OEM From Honda
ACL Race Bearings - Speed shop (local distributor)
ARP Connecting Rod bolts, Wrist Pins and Head Studs - Speedshop (Local distributor)
Shotpeened ROds - Arrow Machine Co.
Stock Pistons - Honda OEM
Ported and Polished Head w/Oversized valves - Arrow Machine Co.
Mullins Oil Pump - Speed shop (Local distributor)
Supertech Valvetrain - Speed Shop (Local distributor)
Stock Camshaft (Currently thinking of installing the Blox Stage 1 I got) (Blox cam purchased directly from manufacturer through local distributor)
Stage 2 Clutch (ACT, purchased through local distributor)
9lb Flywheel (Purcahsed through a local distributor)
Rebuilt trans with Carbon Synchros (From old car, rebuilt myself)
T3/T4 Turbo (Purchased from Arrow Machine Co)
Garret Intercooler (Purchased through local distributor)
Stainless Exhaust Manifold (Purchased through local distributor)
Tial Wastegate (Ebay)
Tial Blowoff Valve (Ebay)
Aluminum Charge Piping (Purchased from local distributor)
S300 ECU (Purchased from private seller)

You see ALOT OF NOTHING purchased from ebay other then my Wastegate and Blow off valve, and truth be told you can get Brembo or Wilwood brakes, Garret, Turbonetics, HKS and Greddy--ALL major manufacturer parts through Ebay as well so what point are you trying to prove?





My goal ISN'T to touch the top end...could have sworn I said that like 3 times already. A rich versus lean scenario isn't exactly what I believe it is? Doesn't Detonation occur due to a TO-LEAN circumstance in a cylinder?? A LEANER mixture is more powerful then a Richer one is it not?? I guess physics, and the threads posted in the FAQ on www.honda-tech.com <---a Reliable and trusted source of information, are BS and they're wrong to and you're right?

Timing = Part of tuning, and we already agreed posts ago that TUNING is very important, you're getting redundant. And uh..DUH, who takes their car to a non-reputable tuner? AS far as what I have to learn it clearly pales in comparison to what you're missing buddy.


Thanks for your .02 cent tho'.

Bix VT

Is the picture of the car in the first post yours? if so, you don't have a Tial bov. It looks like an ebay knockoff of a greddy design. But I'm not here to start an argument.

As for the injector size, that depends on how much power the injectors need to support. Here is a page with all the formulas needed: http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

Using the calculator at the bottom of that page, a quick plugin of the numbers you gave says that for 250hp (not whp) you will need 570cc injectors. If it helps, I am doing the same thing with my D16Y8, DD at 200ish whp. I don't plan on going past that, so I got RC 550s. You may want to go up to the 720s though if you want that extra safety margin or plan to crank it past the limits of the 550s.

OneBadTurboCRV

I had a long drawn out post, but decided to delete it for this.

I know a crap load more than you and thank you think.
It's not my car, so do what you want.
I call it like I see it; if you were to search you would find every answer I posted is more than 100% correct. Did I mention all of this is easily searchable. Good luck with your build, hopefully it ends up being what you want it to be.

krc91987

I believe that a set of 550's would be good for your build, plenty for what you have now and room to grow, you could conceivebly run 1000cc injectors on a stock motor with a tune you just scale the whole map, ie they would only ever see 20% duty cycle or so, but with 240cc you would be at 90% max (those %s are just pulled out of my *** for example) but you get the point.

Also when he said touch the top end he meant doing work to the head not trying to get max power or revs, which honestly is pretty much right I run 400hp on a bone stock head, but it will help you hit your goal a little easier. Good luck with your build.

TheProfessional

The top end has been touched, I thought I covered that. It has a Supertech Full Valve Train, Dual Valve Springs, Oversized Valves, Retainers and Keepers even the rocker arms have been replaced. It has a Port and Polish and I was thinking of installing either a ZC cam or a Blox Cam.

You're like the 2nd person to tell me I should just got with the 1000cc injectors and just map it out from there, I wouldn't ever see the max so it's basically for coverage, I appreciate your input and right now i'm entertaining 750's or 1000's.

I don't wanna make an assload of horsepower, I'd be FINE at 220, but if I can escape with 250, Reliably, tuned? I'd take it yanno?

TKERacer619

1000cc for a d series making 200-250? Get the right size injector. If you ever need to upgrade you won't loose much cash. Especially if you find a good set of used ones to start with. I have a set of rc 440s laying around as I'm sure many here do as well.

egb18dx

If your looking into caming it look into delta. I bought a delta 272-2 regrind which has been said that its just like the bisimoto 2.4 cam. But these are for vtec heads. They do make non vtec ones and they are great prices as well. I paid 165 + 14 bucks in shipping. Pretty good price for a good cam.

TheProfessional

This is some of the best advice I've gotten so far, I'm ordering it today they do make a Non-Vtec and it's just about the same price.

I copped a Set of 720cc injectors and I have the Walbro 225lph Fuel Pump, I think i'ma hold off until the cam gets here, install then take it to the Tuners. Using an S300, I'll post my Dyno sheets in a matter of days, wish me luck lol.