no i had a bone stock gsr with a wet kit and a dry kit on it. very powerful and cheap set up. ran all of it thru UD at the time, for what i paid for all of it, i couldnt have built a faster drag car

 

sorry i havent been paying attention to the thread.. im using the ebay header cause i dont have the money to drop on an expensive header.. i built this set up back with parts i had laying around... dont really want to spend extra money on it.. i like the 4-1 design for nitrous... and its working for me, just cause its from ebay doesnt mean it cant work. im using a msd digital 6 with the nitrous activating the timing retard on the box.. yes im launching the car with a stock tranny on a 200 shot with 25x8.7x13 slicks.... ive pulled a 1.59 60' previously.. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by llewsirc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your gonna blow the welds off your intake manifold

(sorry someone had to say it)

cool setup. glad to see a nitrous'd honda get so low (without turbo)

you statement about the heat, i think the nitrous cools the intake charge down alot, so that might help.

are you launching on a 200 shot with a stock tranny </TD></TR></TABLE>

nitrous cools the intake charge if your running a fogger on the pipe further down stream... once it enters the cumbustion chambers it cause a big flame which creates more heat.....especially when its a direct port, there is no cooling, it goes strait into the chambers

 

DANGER TO MANIFOLD!!!

lol

Sweet setup bro

 

i love nitrous, dollar for dollar, you cant get a better performance mod

 

thats why cubish is the man if only i could get him to tell me his secrets lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eggiel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And blowers are for girls </TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually its real men get BLOWN and Stroked!

Upgrade that header!

 

damn 13 - 1 compression thats not too high ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMisGOOD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Actually its real men get BLOWN and Stroked!

Upgrade that header! </TD></TR></TABLE>

90% of the motors power is coming from the nitrous.. a $600-800 header that may help me pick up 10-15hp isnt worth it to me...if its working why change it??

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iROCKtheSOHC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">damn 13 - 1 compression thats not too high ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

nope.. nitrous loves compression as long as you know how to set it up right... if not you will have a nuclear meltdown..lol i would like to have more of a flat top piston though for better flame travel and still have the compression, but again i already had all of these parts and not trying to come out of pocket any more

thanks for all the comments

 

my buddy from Canada had pretty much the same set-up as u do right now, he was spraying 150 shot which gave him 1120's 1130's all day until the gas ran out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cubish &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sorry i havent been paying attention to the thread.. im using the ebay header cause i dont have the money to drop on an expensive header.. i built this set up back with parts i had laying around... dont really want to spend extra money on it.. i like the 4-1 design for nitrous... and its working for me, just cause its from ebay doesnt mean it cant work. im using a msd digital 6 with the nitrous activating the timing retard on the box.. yes im launching the car with a stock tranny on a 200 shot with 25x8.7x13 slicks.... ive pulled a 1.59 60' previously..

nitrous cools the intake charge if your running a fogger on the pipe further down stream... once it enters the cumbustion chambers it cause a big flame which creates more heat.....especially when its a direct port, there is no cooling, it goes strait into the chambers</TD></TR></TABLE>

Um the cooling is done in the combustion chamber. Thats just like saying inject pure oxygen its alright .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stockredej1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats awesome

much props, cant wait to see your new numbers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidShipCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Um the cooling is done in the combustion chamber. Thats just like saying inject pure oxygen its alright .</TD></TR></TABLE>

do you realize how much heat nitrous produces in the combustion chamber??
there is no cooling the charge on a direct port kit... its strait injection

 

what is nitrous and do they sell it by the inch or foot.....


hey cube what's up

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cubish &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do you realize how much heat nitrous produces in the combustion chamber??
there is no cooling the charge on a direct port kit... its strait injection </TD></TR></TABLE>

The reason for more heat is basic we dont need to get down to telling eachother what's what's more air more fuel = more heat. However it is not nitrogen that produces heat it absorbs it.

There's a reason for the N in 20. If it didn't do anything good it would be useless and it would be the same as practically injecting pure oxygen.

It absorbs heat even in the combustion chamber.

 

i am going to step in on this one cubish sorry.....nitrous allows you to get better air/fuel ratios.i'm sorry but nitrous does cool the charge if injected into the charge pipe...as for direct port no IT DOES NOT......the FUEL is what cools the charge and keeps pcp's down "and no not the drug"


nitrous doesn't make the power...the fuel does.the nitrous just allows us to come up w/different air/fuel ratios...you just have to find the right combanation.

pressure is what creates the heat think about it? it's called peak cylinder pressure


harv

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1700anddroping &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i am going to step in on this one cubish sorry.....nitrous allows you to get better air/fuel ratios.i'm sorry but nitrous does cool the charge if injected into the charge pipe...as for direct port no IT DOES NOT......the FUEL is what cools the charge and keeps pcp's down "and no not the drug"


nitrous doesn't make the power...the fuel does.the nitrous just allows us to come up w/different air/fuel ratios...you just have to find the right combanation.

pressure is what creates the heat think about it? it's called peak cylinder pressure


harv</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've just tried to say lets not start teaching each other the basic's we all already know basics. I'll ask the owner of PhaseChangeRacing to come in.

Basically what your saying is thats like injecting pure oxygen and it has no cooling effect. IF that was true you'd be burning holes in pistons like crazy, nitrogen regulates things to a limit in the chamber.

I'm talking about direct port not some intake pipe bs.

 

the fuel is what keeps the temps down.....nitrous causes extreme pressure which causes extreme heat not to mention pcp.....if nitrous does all this cooling you say it does...hell why is everybody or should i say mostly everybody running wet kits.THE FUEL IS WHAT KEEPS THE TEMPS DOWN THAT ARE CAUSED FROM NITROUS,AND MAKE THE HP AT THE SAME TIME.

harv

and i have talked to who you are wanting to bring in...he knows me and we have talked a little bit.....but i am always willing to learn IF YOU CAN TEACH ME?

if you are asking does nitrous cool period....well yes?it does i would be lieing if i said it didn't.

Modified by 1700anddroping at 6:52 AM 10/23/2005


Modified by 1700anddroping at 6:54 AM 10/23/2005


Modified by 1700anddroping at 7:02 AM 10/23/2005

 

sicknesss

 

1700anddroping and cubish know there stuff bro trust me between the two of them you cant go wrong with a nitrous build

 

now that i have had some sleep....i am up for some discussion on this topic w/anybody.

harv

 

Ok, well I can't resist but to jump in on this one. I have to say I love this forum lol, its the only one im on where a 150HP tune is big. A few corrections that need to be made:

#1 you ABSOLUTELY do not need a pair of bottles for a 150HP tune. I don't swap over to a dual bottle setup until Im running at least over a 500HP (in how ever many stages) tune. A standard bottle valve has a .250" orifice, a 150 shot has the cumulative are of a .063" jet, sorry guys there is just no point in the second bottle.

#2 there is still a lot of cooling that occurs with a direct port system. Cooling occurs as soon as the nitrous begins to phase change from a liquid to a gasesous state. Keep in mind that over half of the time the nitrous is spraying in the port its spraying on the back of a closed intake valve.

#3 The guy who said nitrous loves high compression has to be the smartest guy on here. Compression has nothing to do with how much nitrous you can run unless you are talking about running with a limited octane fuel.

#4 The "cooling" effect is NOT a good thing for power. That cooling effect is the liquid nitrous oxide increasing itself by over 300x in volume. Your overall volumetric efficiency is going out the window in the name of "cooling" which isn't needed in the first place. Phase change is the arch enemy of an efficient system.

#5 Nitrous does not cause a hotter flame, it causes a faster burning flame (thats why they call it an accelerant btw). This is why at higher hp levels a higher octane fuel with a higher distilation curve is necessary. This is also why we have to retard timing, because we no longer need to "lead the flame" by such a large margin.

#6 nice low 11 second run. 10's are only a tweak away for you. Are you coming out of the hole on the bottle or kicking it on later down the track? I can't see how long your nitrous/fuel feedlines are but if you cut your fuel line (between the noid and dist block) down to half the length of the nitrous line you will probably inch your way a touch closer to that 10 second pass.

 

sick setup man..
have you ran it again yet?

 

1- phase change racing...i couldn't agree more on the 2 bottle thing for a 150 shot.the only time 2 bottles are needed in my opion is .when you are running more
than one stage.

2- nitrous turns from a liquid to gas at a little over 550 degrees.i would be lieing if i said nitrous did not cool anything.as i have stated that in the previous thread.but i like the term you USE....phase change...good one there.

3- i think he was saying don't be afraid of using high compression w/the nitrous.just did not word it that way.when you go up in hp...changing the fuel is a given...who ever messes or knows anything about this nitrous stuff should know that and if not they need to leave it alone.

4- this is the point i have been trying to make to your buddy that wanted to get the ball rolling.that's cool we all learm from our mistakes.all nitrous does is PUTS MORE AIR INTO THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER....that is as simple as i know how to put it.what cause the extreme heat w/nitrous is you guessed it PHASE CHANGE.

5- i never said nitrous itself causes a hotter flame.....but the extra oxygen you have added and the fuel also is what creates it.I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO IT....but one doesn't need to pull as much timing as he thinks.i slowly found this out and this is the HOLY GRAIL....for nitrous tuning....the more pcp you can make the more power you are going to make.but yes you do have to pull timing back but not ALOT.


6-thank you for the kind words.but if i felt like traveling 3hrs one way.i would have done been in the 10's i spray all 400 out of the whole....i would say that is why my 60' is like it is and probably could get it just a little bit lower.but we are running 24.5x9x13 slicks....fixing to change to 26x10x15 gd yr's.that alone should put me there.not that i cain't run stages...i just like keeping it simple,until i actually need to create a monster on the juice"which is in the making".already ahead of you on the nitrous line deal.it sits on the p/s and the line isn't even 3 1/2 feet long....and at 1300 psi bottle pressure...I EXPERIENCE A PHASE CHANGE....ha hahahaha


well i am headed to the gym and will be back later....but it has been nice to have chatted w/you.

harv

 

Even with a couple stages, if the nitrous flow isn't great enough to cause some kind of pressure differential across that valve orifice you arn't going to see any gain. If you can use the extra bottle to meet a weight requirement for a class race, no harm no foul. But if you are just trying to go fast its just another wasted 30lbs.

Nitrous can phase change from a liquid to a gas at nearly any temperature that a nitrous system usually sees. Pressure is what affects phase change in our world. Once that nitrous gets below roughly 750psi its going to phase change into a gas (in normal operating temps).

Though what I just said holds true in the operating range that we use our nitrous oxide it is important to note that Nitrous Oxide is a supercritical gas, meaning that there is a given temperature at which it can't compress back into a liquid state regardless of the pressure applied. For nitrous that is 36.5*C with the supercritical pressure being 71.7Bar.

Your 550 degree number is actually the point at which the molecular bonds are broken and molecular decomposition occurs (it we get free floating Nitrogen and Oxygen atoms).

The flame temperature in the combustion chamber should not drastically increase on the bottle. Cylinder pressure will increase and thus temp to a small degree but it should be no major shift. If you run an out of the box NOS system with they horrifically pig rich tunes, you should see a decrease in cyl temp while on the bottle. Both temperature and pressure we have control over with our Nitrous-to-fuel ratio and ignition timing, respectively.

You are absolutely right on the timing issue. The "standard" ammount of timing that you are told to take out is no different than the fuel rich nitrous tunes handed out by the major manufacturers. Its just to keep them safe down to the lowest common denominator. You Honda guys have it really easy with your super efficient engine designs, you almost don't need any ignition timing anyway.

My 10 second comment was pointed at Cubish who ran 11.1 that started this thread. I already knew how fast you were hehe. But as a point of correction the "feed line" I was referring to was the line between the solenoid and the distribution blocks. Not the primary feed line. Cutting that fuel line down really helps to correct the nitrous and fuel event timing so they both hit at the same time.

This is really turning into a good thread.

 

wow my head hurts now lol