Maybe the weight penalties are too generous?

 

I agree with others on this sport is still in its infancy although the HR class cars have been racing for a few years. Its gonna take a little while but Im sure that the playing field will get more competitive. It just takes a little determination and alot of planning and trial and error from what I know.

It may even come to where 15 racers show up for instance and 10 of those racers all have engines built by the same builder!! I know of some other classes where that happens quit a bit.

I also know of that same class where there is a racer that shows up and qualifies in the top half of the field everytime with a engine that was built by his dad without a big sponsor and they do pretty decently.

I would say that the competition will get closer just give it some time. But that is just me

 

Maybe HR should only run gasoline. No meth allowed.

 

the HOTROD class is in limbo somewhere in between unibody and tube chassis cars, this however is not the problem. The problem is that sanctioning bodies have allowed rule interpretation to be to loose. The spirit of the class has been lost.

What we are seeing is cars in HOTROD, as evidenced by their times, that should be PROFWD cars. Recall a time when any civic owner could in some fashion identify with HOTROD cars, today they might as well be tube chassis.

I strongly believe that the HOTROD class should be modified to return the cars to a much closer to stock package and appearance. This would both increase the separation between HOTROD and PROFWD and create a HOTROD class more congruent with the original spirit of the class.


Modified by Hriday at 2:05 PM 4/19/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Exactly, hot rod is performing close to it's max potential, but I think Pro FWD is far from it...</TD></TR></TABLE>

that is exactly what i was trying to say.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ParrisEngDyn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.........there is no way to level the playing field. No matter what rules are added, teams with smaller budgets will always be at a disadvantage......... </TD></TR></TABLE>


everyone should read and understand this sentence. there will always be someone who can somewhat compete (gardella, for instance) but for the most part, if you do not have alot of money, you will struggle to compete and never really be able to be consistent. honestly i feel alot of guys try to build hot rod cars that probably shouldn't......from a finacial standpoint at least. its sad, but its reality and its not going to change. as the sport moves forward, you can only have a select number of people that will be able to compete. those will be the ones with the most experience AND money. you can have experience or money to build a hot rod car, but for the most part, only those with both will be able to succeed. take pro stock for instance. a 16 car ladder will only be seperated by a tenth and a half at the most. they have basically leveled the playing field not with rules, but with the only cars being able to compete being the ones with major sponsorship, major dollars, and tons of knowledge. this sport is growing and times are changing. and unfortunately, thats going to leave alot of guys out in the pasture. but thats the way it has to be.

and as far as budget goes. know a days, if you can only spend say $25,000 or so on a car with only a few sponsors, which is more than 99% of what most "racers" can afford, you should seriously think about a street class car, not a "hot rod" car..........cause even those classes are stepping up...big time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Header Tech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe HR should only run gasoline. No meth allowed.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think that or take away the nitrous. There are cars running high 8s without N2o. That will slow the times down for awhile. The thing that makes me upset is that our sport was built up on strickly imports. Now again we have a sanction being dominated by domestic cars and I think thats why Honda and other import companies are not interested. When I want to see a domestic car go fast I go and watch John Force race. When I go to a NHRA impot event event and look in the parking lot I see mostly import cars not sunfires and neons. Us small guys will never be able to compete with Domestics,and I think that sooner or later that the spectators will begin to lose interest and stop going to races to watch there favorite import cars getting beat on by Billion dollar Domestics. I think that the main direction NHRA wanted to go when it was made up was this way. Meaning having the domestics dominate. Thats why the named itr sport compact. I liked it much better when it was NIRA National IMPORT Racing Association. They are the only reason I started to race imports. But now I am losing interest big time and would rather build a car and race it on the street. Just my .02
Brian

 

This is why most people should be building Sprt FWD Cars.

It's very hard to compete with corporate money, so why put yourself through the hardship? Things are off the chain in the street class.

Case in point: Jason Hunt\Brian Ballard within a tenth in the finals in Sport FWD.

That's some ****** racin'. I hate seeing a car clobber another by half the track in Pro RWD, or whatever. I can tell you, that watching the fast street class races are more fun than anything else. I go running when I hear the Street Classes are running, or Pro-All-Motor. Anything else, I'd rather lounge in the shade.

 

Again, how do the NDRA rules differ from the NHRA rules that makes NDRA better?

I also agree that the answer to hotrod is to slow everybody down in hot rod. Maybe going back to gas is the answer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Geovannie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Again, how do the NDRA rules differ from the NHRA rules that makes NDRA better?

I also agree that the answer to hotrod is to slow everybody down in hot rod. Maybe going back to gas is the answer. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i could see that helping. make it a gas only class.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK, I'm looking for some original thought here to even out the playing field.
How about this...Do a weight to cubic inch ratio
1.9 liters weighs 1900 lbs minimum
2.0 liters 2000 lbs
2.1 = 2100
2.2 = 2200
2.3 = 2300
nothing larger in engine size</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hmm sounds familiar: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=764447

 

Earl you are right.....I've put all my hot rod
cars to bed....wheres the fun...? JJ went on his own and i wish him the best but a privateer
will be hard pressed to run againnst teams like this..I was in fontana...that car is far from
stockfirewall stock floor pan stock unibody...
but they have the money and nhra isn't going to tell them to change....Gary's car is unibody does have stock firewall and privateer hes half a second back.....and hes struggling trying to
find a deal...Sport fwd is where its at...all
you guys got to stick together and not let
corprate get there grubby hands into it..or they'll just ruin it like hot rod....hot rod sux!
4 cars give me a break....Brent Leivestad
PFISPEED.com

If they want to see whats going to happen look at skating and bmx freestyle back in the 80-s and 90's...grass roots fun until corprate gets involved exploits it
until its dead...budget limitations!!!trailer size minimums haha
hey gary sell the x-trac get the gm auto trans////seems to work.

 

They are not going to go that far backwards.... no way. Too late.

- Weight? - It isnt going to slow them down... PRO FWD is 250 lbs lighter and theyre only .3 quicker.
- Nitrous? Nope.... Kenny went 8.5's on turbo only.
- Gas? Nope, John Lingenfelter ran Gas in his PRO RWD car and it went 6.99 with a 4 cylinder. And Paul Bawhan(Hot Rod) 8.66 on gas... heard he has gone 8.40 but dont know the fuel.

How are they (Ladwig) doing it?? for one -Power *Management* ... not just power..... Gary went 8.31 thats pretty close.... and its the beginning of the year and he has a new setup(transmission) . What did you think was going to happen? GM had a proven reliable setup with the automatic and they hooked up with a proven racing company....
second - look at the aerodynamics of those two cars.... people are not looking at the whole picture.

Months ago I proposed some ideas for hot rod changes... but it was too late. 26" tires to save the Honda trannys from extinction... and to slow hot rod down to low 9's high 8's. I wanted to find a way to get the corporations out of Hot Rod and into PRO where they belong.
Too bad I just thought of this - a GREAT way would have been to not allow a Manufacturer's display in any class but PRO.... but its too late.

Attendance will be the only thing that gets the sanctioning bodies attention.

Too bad IDRC is on the way out, they were proposing a more grass roots setup for their Quick Class. But it looks like NOPI will have a good turnout this year!


I'm one of those people who "shouldnt be " racing Hot Rod... more like shouldnt be too worried about being competitive... I did it because its the kind of car I wanted to build *before* there was an NHRA series.... so oh well.

The only positive Is now there is even more attention to the Street classes.... which cant be a bad thing, Good luck to everyone.

 

It appears that the pontiac is actually a tube frame car that gm hung some unibody parts on it to be legal. The block is out of a SAAB rather than an American made block. Better aluminum or castings in Sweeden? The engine starts out at a larger size than Hondas can even be bored and stroked to efficiently. Enforce the firewall, wheel tub and body rules.
NHRA...just give us a fair and level playing field or watch all the hot rod cars go to NDRA.

 

I agree....


As far as that new trans. I will call X-trac but every other X-trac that comes in our shop Rally or open-wheel racer is NOT H-pattern...

My rulebook for 04' says must retain H-pattern.

As far as GM well im sure they are cheating somewhere and paying off NHRA somehow then it will show up next year as a new rule. Just like they have done it before.

Howard

 

Remember 5-10 years ago when all those who where racing sportcompacts were complaining they weren't getting respect from other racers and other race organizations. the majority of EVERYONE wanted this sport to grow and become know and a professional sport. That was what everyone wanted, and now look what happened. it has become PROFESSIONAL with major sponsorships, corporate sponsor, etc. I mean come on you cant be mad at the situation that it now takes alot more money to run in the nhra series. Look at the NHRA powerade series thats all big time, the little guys dont even get to participate in that series as all. thats just the way it goes when something becomes mainstream and professional. just like every other professional racing sport, you have to have money (and some brains or at least hire some brains) to compete. basically most people have to face the facts that racing professionally is not for everyone. this doesn't mean to quit racing all together but everyone should know their limits and not get into something they can not handle.

But on another note, lets say if honda corp. backed up its racers etc, etc and they were the one's running low 8's consistantly would you guys be complaining or wanting to set restrictions to level out the playing for other cars. Basically so the GM/Mopar guys could catch up. i honestly dont think so. when hondas dominated the class other than the few recent years no one complained about jojo, lisa, kenny, ed being too fast. i know there where restrictions on them to level out the field but in the end it really didnt help much, these cars are still running faster and faster. lets say there was no GM/Mopar its not like many HR hondas could really catch Gary or Kenny if they were running mid to low 8's anyways.

 

I seem to like the "gas only" rule and to enforce the firewall and body rules as Earl said.
But something else will need to be done at this point in order to keep all the cars competeitive....

Maybe NHRA should impose "E.T limits" so that the NHRA can get there "side by side'' racing. It's good to see records broken at every event but when it's usually by the same 2-3 teams that gets un-interesting..

I would much rather see priveteer teams win races every once in a while than see the same BIG CORPORATE teams break records every race..

just my .02

 

I feel that on any giving race that anything can happen. Im a future pro allmotor racer. If you cannot compete then stay in the brackets or pro-am classes until you can. If you ever go to any NASCAR, NHRA, Formula1...im sure there are tons of cars that do not make the cut. On the NHRA side they have the indexed classes for those who are up and coming.

Can i compete with Jesus Padilla 9.51...NO!!!! Im not going to cry because 2 years ago they made him add weight and he continued to get faster each race. Then they outlawed the 3 rotor and he has a 2 rotor now and he is back at slaughtering the field. What can i do about it, he built his car to the rules.

If a car is built by the rules how can we complain.

What can i learn from the faster cars? How much R/D will i have to do as a non-sponsored racer to get the upper hand on the big guys. What kind of financial sacrifices must i make if i trully want to compete in any class? mortgage the house, cash in a 401k, etc....

just an outsider looking in...........Cant wait to get on the track....JUST HAVE FUN BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

yeh, its just too bad Honda hasnt stepped it up like everyone else in the pro fwd and hotrod classes, so far GM, Mopar, Mazda, Nissan, Hundai have all stepped it up in fwd drag racing but honda is not doing any major backing. Honda needs to hire some new market researchers. They are not giving back to the people that made them who they are in this sport. They do offer some support w/ their HPP helping out papadakis, Loofofsky and Adam but that is nowheres near what other manufactures are doing. Hey, alteast domestics are nowheres near dominating the rwd classes!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jerseykid609 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">theres an easy fix that will definatly level the playing feild make all trannys shiftable no autos no air shifted just plan manually shifted. That why its still on the driver to get the car down the track not just to guide it through the traps that, will in a instant make every one more equal plain and simple.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

you bring a good point on that, but its proven that autos are more suitable for drag racing. The key here is to find and aftermaket comapny to make an auto box for universal aplications. x-trac came out with somthing i feel will be the norm soon, also g-foce has just came out with the hot rod box so that should be nice as well.-pdang

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by antigravity &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeh, its just too bad Honda hasnt stepped it up like everyone else in the pro fwd and hotrod classes, so far GM, Mopar, Mazda, Nissan, Hundai have all stepped it up in fwd drag racing but honda is not doing any major backing. Honda needs to hire some new market researchers. They are not giving back to the people that made them who they are in this sport. They do offer some support w/ their HPP helping out papadakis, Loofofsky and Adam but that is nowheres near what other manufactures are doing. Hey, alteast domestics are nowheres near dominating the rwd classes!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Honda is probably waiting to jump at the chance after adam did them soo much good with his car Idiots like that probably drove honda from the market....They should have taken the money they gave adam and given it to someone like jeremy.. A real racer that would have put that money to good use and not to bring his many dumb *** cars out to each race and flaunt em...Didnt they also give RJ allot of help with his car...See thats allready two strikes..Maybe honda doesnt like to strike out..*shrugs*

 

I think Jerseykid has a good idea,no automatic tranny's.Everyone has to run a manually shifted tranny.How many hotrod drivers run auto tranny's?I can think of only a few,Lets see- Ladwig,Crawford,hummm.Gary might be running the x-trac,Kenny also?Earls got some good points also.1.9L=1900lbs,2.0=2000lbs etc.Whats up with the big GM boys cheatin' .tube chassis car which they added back a firewall and floorpan.Saab motor(block) in a Pontiac, I don't think you can do that. NHRA needs to look alot closer at Ladwigs car,I think he is streching the rules to much.So much that he just needs to run profwd!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The P.I.M.P &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Honda is probably waiting to jump at the chance after adam did them soo much good with his car Idiots like that probably drove honda from the market....They should have taken the money they gave adam and given it to someone like jeremy.. A real racer that would have put that money to good use and not to bring his many dumb *** cars out to each race and flaunt em...Didnt they also give RJ allot of help with his car...See thats allready two strikes..Maybe honda doesnt like to strike out..*shrugs*</TD></TR></TABLE>

totally agree 110 %.........just waited hondas' money. Where are their new cars at? They probably will never see the track.

 

good suggestion's from everyone but let's remember that it is not mart'ys car he is a great paid driver and the car belongs to GM, so he is told what to do which is drive, i believe in honda that is my bread and butter but let's not tarnish marty's name, he is a great person and will talk to anybody.

 

I totally agree that something has to be done. 5 car field at Moroso!...common thats poor!!

I think that the true solution lies in a displacement limit, displacement weight penalty system, and for NHRA to quit sucking the big GM dick and make the chassis equal.

I love what GM and Mopar have brought to sport compact racing. It is something that the sport has needed, BUT it has to be a level playing field!! This isn't just going to screw the future of Hot Rod, its srewing the entire sport.

NHRA - What direction are you taking this sport? We can take on the big money. What we can't take is the advantages you are GIVING them. Make it fair and you will have a race.

Honda - Where are you at? Thousands and of us have been loyal to you. Where is your support?

Go get em GARY and KENNY I know you have something for them!!!