I got the RTSI tank,
it doesn't use 2 pumps, only the pump sunk trough second pipe from the oposite lobe of the tank.
the second unit #24 is the level lever.
I got also an Wagon tank, same configuration, a galon less capacity.
You can look for Integra RTSI tank

good luck.

 

Solved another mystery, well sort of. The Civic has seemed to be a little low on power, but with all of the recent changes and how long it's been since I've driven it I wasn't really sure if what I was feeling was just me or actually the Civic. So I broke out the laptop and tapped into Smanager for some answers. I noticed that the Civic was not building boost as fast as well as not reaching max boost. At first I thought this may have something to do with the different gearing of the SBXM, but that wouldn't explain why I was not boosting as high as I should be. Then I thought that it might have something to do with the new compressor wheel I put in the turbo and possibly needing a retune. This didn't make much sense either as the problem became progressively worse as I drove the Civic. Another thing I noticed was a rattle coming from the engine bay, which was also getting progressively worse. It sounded like a loose heat shield or something only I do not have any heat shields left on the Civic. So I went after the rattle that ended up coming from my wastegate...

Aluminum diaphragm with threads missing

Steel valve

Locking screw missing

Looks like the locking screw some how worked itself loose, which allowed the valve to loosen up, and took out the threads of the diaphragm. It's an AGP 46mm wastegate and they happen to be local, so I took it to them for some answers. They said they had never seen anything like this happen with one of their wastegates. I said, "well now you have." So they are rebuilding it, or seeing if they can, for a small fee. Guess it's better then buying a whole new wastegate. It's always something, I swear. As soon as I get all of these bugs worked out of the Civic, I will start working on mounting the rear end.

 

Good news: AGP was able to rebuild my wastegate and the Civic has power again. They ended up charging me $50 for the parts, which is fine even though the locking screw for the diaphragm is a totally different design hinting at the fact that the old design was flawed. No worries, **** happens. I also ended up replacing the v-band clamps for the wastegate. This is the second time the clamps from AGP have torn on me. Yes, you read that correctly. This time I caught them before anything bad happened. Last time my wastegate literally fell off of the turbo mani while I was on the highway. The only reason I didn't loose it was that the vacuum line stayed connected. Wish I had a pic to show, but the whole face on one side of the clamp would tear and peal off. AGP said they had never seen anything like it before. They said that again the second time I brought it to them... So I just picked up a set of Precision v-band clamps. They look a bit more sturdy.

Bad news: Got the Civic over to my buddy's place and onto his rack (guess that's good news). Removed the fuel tank and started setting up about where I want to mount the rear diff and there is NO WAY I am going to fit a factory tank under the car. Especially with running 3" exhaust back there the way I want to. This is a bit upsetting as I really wanted to keep all of the factoriness with the fuel system as far as tank location, fuel pump set-up, and fuel filling. Now I must again relocated my battery and fill up the trunk with a fuel cell. Not to mention run a new pump, filter, and lines. This going to be an expense that I had not worked into the budget, but I'm not about to give up on it now. I've already started looking around and I think I have found a 15 gallon tank that I can fit in the back. I definitely do not want to go any smaller with the tank than the factory 12 gallons as I can go through e85 very quickly and there are not many stations around. I've also decided now is the time to incorporate a Flex-Fuel sensor. This will help with the fuel station issue as I will be able to fill up anywhere and should also keep the tune more consistent being that you never know what percentage e85 you're getting. To use the Flex-Fuel sensor though I must upgrade my s300, so there is yet another expense I didn't account for. I'm one of those "might as well do it while I'm here" kind of people though.



Won't be looking like this for long...



Tank removed and not much room

Thinking about this high

Going higher and changing rear mount



Just trying to eyeball everything

Have to go even higher than this for clearance and axle angle.

About where I'm thinking...

Hard to line it up without the driveshaft...





That's how I feel about that...

I spent a lot of time just looking at things and taking measurements trying to figure out where I wanted to start with this. It is already driving me crazy. I can stick the axles in and that will show me where the diff will sit center wise, but I still need to figure out how high to go with it and how to point the front of it to keep it straight. The driveline is too long, so I can't use it to help me align the diff. The diff needs to be mounted to know how much to shorten the driveline. I purchased a mount kit for the bar that will run from frame to frame and bolt into the top of the diff. I will be welding the mount kit into the inside of the frames. It's all going to be trial and error from here on out. The hardest part is just getting started somewhere. I want to do the fuel system right away so that I don't have to push the Civic all of the time and so that I can get it out of my buddy's place and not tie up any room. He is really helping me out by letting me use his stuff, while watching me build a car that may end up beating his on the track. That's a really good dude and a true car enthusiast.

 

As far as the 3" exhaust is concerned, if you can get everything else worked out, then maybe could you just use a side exhaust - just before the rear tire? I think that Nascar uses the large oval (but low in height) exhaust tips, so even if the car is fairly low, maybe an outlet like that would work?

If you use the CRV or RTSI fuel tanks, then would those be enough to not have to use a fuel cell? - Jim

 

Oops,
The frustrating moment when you hear
I told you... it can't be done.

I got a house to paint, and few more beer cans to empty. But resting time is good for positive thinking.

Looking at the pictures Idea get across me brain,
This is will give you another 2" hopefully more play, so you can have room for the shafts and the diff.
If you want to keep that rear cross beam, or whatever the name.
the dif can still be moved back about 2,5-3"
1. Have you tried if the CRV tank fits in the hole? looks similar to the RTSI tank I have.
If it does not, get yourself a wagon 1995+ tank, and have fuel cell in the trunk half size of spare tire, wire it, pipe it, to pump fuel to the tank. extra 10 galons gained.
2. Entire sway bar and ASR bracket, install with spacer 1.5" further back,
3. Install at the back of the LCA the swaybar links. this is needed for the axles to clear 1" at the sway links.
should give you about 2,5-3 inches at the diff side.
4. To mount the diff behind the cross beam you will need to fabricate a bracket.
Or you can fabricate the sway bar spacer to have bracket for the rear diff mount.
the guy who made the TA's for you, is really a kickass welder, I can only wish he would be nearby for my project.
5. you will have to make another bracket to attach the diff at the top. hopefuly already behind the tank.
6. Exhaust, you will need to reroute the pipes, best bet is Nascar oval. you can clear underneath Left axle and turn it behind the sway bar to conect to the tail body.
7. Maybe if you don't have that much luck we all need, to make more space for the diff you will still need to chop a bit in the midle the rear crossbeam.
8. Shortening the driveline is not the option. this can lead you to serious trobles at high speeds if not properly balanced.

The brushes dried out.
cheers.

 

CRV looks NOTHING like the rti.

pics/illustration request: 4wd dc teg or eg/ek civic | Page 2 | HondaSwap



You can clearly see how the gas tank and shaft looks when installed properly. You can also see what rear sub frame you're suppose to use or at least how it mounts.

 

Yeap.
checked that same thread before started my project. still do not hink this is the right path to follow, not always the short cut takes you where you want to be.
on the picture, The dif is too low, shafts are too much Distorted at the front and up at wheel side. poor clearance, and axles working beyond treshold angles.

On the other hand I compared CRV and CIVIC chasis repair manual, diferences are clearly visible, and not so many, as per my perspective.
Wheelbases, CRV vs 6th Gen is same.
Main diference is the chasis crosmember in the CIVIC is very near where the diff TOP mount is to be in the CRV.
Also on the path of the shafts, and so and so.
this said it has to go out and do something else.
As the RTSI subframe I have is a rusty bucket, couldnt find any in better condition, decided to look for an Accord rear subframe, but the other day a friend at the salvage yard gave me for free a Jazz (Fit) Front subframe.
plan is to narow it to fit between the LCA of the 6th gen and make as bolt on.
I tought: If you can modify so desperatelly a Trailing arm, hwy wouldn't you modify a crosmember, whats the blody diference?

Will try tomorrow to take a few pictures of the combo, but will post on my thread, not fair hijacking Darry's

https://honda-tech.com/forums/tech-m.../#post51004051
Cheers.

 

I too have gone through that thread a few times. Even with that diff as low as it is, it still doesn't look as if a fuel tank can fit up there especially with the bar running from frame to frame for the top mount. The only way really to fit a factory fuel tank there is to utilize the rear subframe from the CR-V (or RTSI if you can get one) and set the rear diff back much further. This also gives you clearance issues with the rear struts and axle shafts. Cutting out the original subframe and trying to incorporate a completely different subframe from a somewhat different vehicle is not something I want to try to play around with at this point. I am in a bit of a hurry now that I have a break from school and the Civic is sitting over at my friend's house taking up space. I've got a fuel cell on the way along with a pump, lines, fittings, and various other things.

Thank you for not hijacking the thread atanatas, I have also subscribed to yours.

 

Yeah, it seems your only route is to put the fuel cell into the trunk.

 

In my country we say:
if you want to get far the fast way, take it easy.
So dont push it that hard. take a deep breath, have a few pillow conferencess and the bulb shaw lit up, sooner than you need it.

The subframe is spot welded. you can remove the spot welds with a special drill.
inmediatelly after that you clean the welds and treat it with anticorosion, 21st century has a lot more to offer for a 20th century car.
If you cut it out rust start florish.
When the beam is removed the chassis becomes soft as butter on the sun. so you will need to stiffen it the gheto way with a bar or something before removing the beam...

The CRV subframe wont work straight away, will need heavy modification.
Checked the mounting points, it is far behind, and will twist your LCA, loosing suspension geometry.
is tall about 2" or even more. will needs shortening. If you can get one just measure the distanche between the LCA mounting points. It has to be nearby the 6gen. but not sure. also didnt like the shapes it has.
very dificult to clear the spare tire compartment shapes.
there was a french guy who used CRV subframe i think this was the thread:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/hybrid...2612390/page5/
or else look for SOXLE threads.

In my plan is to use this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231948894105?rmvSB=trueAccord 1997-1999, (Acura CL) Subframe. In my toughts, this is the best match to clear the axles above the subframe. and not disturb the Diff location at all.
will have to Add/fab custom mount for the diff and attach the subframe trough spacers to the main beams. this is the most bolt on than any other option I have concluded for now.
A guess, will need custom size LCA to keep suspension geometry in place.

Heads up! if you need any help i check the thread quite often so post.
Hope gived you the inspiration you need right now.

 

I'm gonna have to look how that is mounted because I have never seen that on the USDM acura cl.

 

Spacers. few coustom brackets, few long bolts, a bit of welding to fortify the bolt places on the beams.
it's all about measure and add custom fab. for sure it will need less welding to the chassis than the other options.
c'mon he builded the trailing arms!
nothing he can't handle.

 

The fuel cell came in so I started working on mounting it in the spare tire area. It's a 15 gallon that actually fits pretty well. Still working on where the battery will end up, but right now the fuel cell is the priority. Made some mounts and will be using L bar as the fuel cell mounting rails to really hold it in place. I tried to weld the L bar to the back of the spare tire area, but it is very thin metal and I just kept blowing through the chassis. I'm just going to use a big plate on the outside to "sandwich" the body and also ad strength to the mounting points. The fuel cell rails will bolt into this plate at the rear of the Civic and the plate will also serve as the mounting location for new fuel pump and fuel filter. I will no longer have room for a spare and a subwoofer, but at this point do I really need room for that ****? I will still be able to fold up the rear seat backs and use the factory cover that goes behind the rear seats. You won't be able to see that there is a fuel cell in the car unless you open up the hatch. Got a ton of crap on the way. I'm going -6AN for the fuel feed and return all the way from the fuel cell to the fuel rail. Should be plenty for what I am trying to accomplish.

 

Got a bit done with the fuel system, and when I say "a bit," I mean like the whole thing. Turned out to be more work than I thought it would be and a hell of a lot more parts than I was expecting to purchase. I think it will work out though, and I think it turned out pretty nice. So what did I do?

- Mounted the fuel cell
- Installed Flex Fuel Sensor
- Mounted fuel pump and filter
- Ran feed and return fuel lines
- Installed bulk head fittings
- Relocated battery (again)
- Wired battery, fuel pump, fuel pump relay, fuel sending unit, and Flex Fuel Sensor
- Cut interior trim to fit battery

Sheesh, is that it? I'm not going to bother with trying to plumb in the factory fuel filler right now. I'll have to suffer with opening the hatch to gas up. I will also have to build a "firewall" around the top of the fuel cell at some point. I really had a hard time finding a battery box that would fit the Optima that I am using. The closest one I did find was made by Taylor and the battery is still too tall for it. I had very little room to work with once the fuel cell was in. I will have to have a top made for it later in the future.



Mounting plate for fuel pump, filter, and fuel cell rails



GM sensor with AN fittings

6an feed and return

Return line on the right, vent line on the left, feed line at the bottom.



Battery shoved and relocated

As level as possible



Looks nice...



Tucked behind the rear bumper

Bulkhead fittings for feed and vent

Feed line

Flex Fuel sensor wiring

Resistor wired in for S300
Heard good things about the AEM external fuel pump from my tuner, so that's what I decided to go with. We will put it to the test soon enough. The Civic was running crazy rich once everything was installed, so for now I just backed down the rail pressure till it does get tuned. The damn fuel sending unit that came with the fuel cell reads backwards in the cluster, so I need to figure something out with that as it is super annoying. I have to send out the S300 for an upgrade so I can use the Flex-Fuel sensor. For now the fuel tank situation is taken care of. Not what I had planned on doing, but it is what it is. You have to be open minded with projects like this and come to terms with **** not working out as planned. Time to move on and get the rear diff mounted. Oh boy

 

Looks nice. Just wondering though - it looks like the fuel pump/lines etc. are situated just behind where the rear tow hook is. If someone rear ends the car, then is there much chance of a fuel leak/fire/explosion? The Ford Pinto comes to mind. Just wondering about the possibility of having them more protected. - Jim

 

Looks nice. Just wondering though - it looks like the fuel pumps and lines are situated just behind where the rear tow hook is. I'm not sure how much protection the rear bumper/bar gives, but if someone rear ends the car, then is there much chance of a fuel leak/fire/explosion? The Ford Pinto comes to mind. Just wondering about the possibility of having them more protected. - Jim

 

It is hard to tell from those pictures, but the pump and filter are tucked a bit up and behind the bumper support brace. I had thought about that as well, but with as low as the car sits and as little as I drive it I decided that it would most likely never be an issue. Now I will go knock on some wood after saying that. I was pretty limited with space and where I could put these. I was surprised how big the filter and pump where when I got them. Not the nice little compact things that drop into the tank. Hopefully I will not be reliving the days of the Pinto in the Civic.

 

Bad place to have the pump, pipes, 12v cables.
you made a 4 wheeled electric molotov cocktail.
Better place is between the seats and the cell.
Not the ideal place, but if no space behind the seat, mount it at side of the spare tire compartment, opposite of the exhaust is better than this.
Filter and pump can be split.

This an extremely dangerous location!
When you got hit in the back, normally car collapses in the middle as beams absorb the hit. tail is lifted more like the other car goes underneath yours.
Just take a walk to the junkyard and look for a back nailed Civic, it won't need much of a blinking to change the plan.
Because of the same reason, no car after the 70 was designed with the tanking the back or at the front, but at as close as possible to the middle of the car. Where damage must be colossal to be reached.
Your life bro.

 

Ya, I may have to rethink this. I need to see where everything else ends up. Kind of in a hurry to get the Civic out of my buddy's place too, so for now this is where it will stay.

 

After hours of measuring, leveling, rethinking, moving everything, and driving myself crazy, I just had to commit and get started somewhere. It's great and a tremendous help to have a lift at this point in the project, but it is very difficult to know exactly where everything is going to end up when the suspension is hanging. I think if I had an alignment rack to sit the car on this would be a hell of a lot easier to set up. But I don't, so I'm doing the best with what I have to work with. I decided to start with the rear mount for the diff. I figured that would set up how high into the fuel tank area the diff would sit and then I could get an idea of where I wanted the mounts for the top of the diff to be. I don't how many times I moved the side bushing/mounts along the frame before I finally decided to weld them in. I also decided to move the bushings in the LCAs to give them and offset to the rear. This moves the struts slightly back making more room for the axles, thus allowing me to move the rear diff back a little more. I'm hoping there are not any issues with the suspension by doing this. I may actually have enough room between the axles and the struts without doing this, but it is too hard to tell without the suspension settled on the ground.

So ya I know it's ugly, but it isn't going anywhere. I welded plates to the frame rails and then welded the mounts to the plates. It seems to be very solid, but I guess I really won't know until I am ripping through the gears. The bushings are polyurethane, which isn't the best choice, but I didn't really want to deal with rubber bushings.

















































Some of the angles of the axles are freaking me out, but I am going with it. If it doesn't work out, I will do what I have to to get it right. I just needed to get started and I think that I have.

 

Did you shorten the shaft?

 

No, not yet. I needed to get the diff mounted to know how much to shorten the driveline. Looks like it will need to be shortened 4-6 inches. I'll have to make the mount for the center bearing and from there I can measure how much will be taken off of the front section. I will be tackling this next!

 

Thats a CRV shaft right?

If you look at the link I provided(a few posts up after yours) there is a member of that forum who has a 2dr coupe w/ rt-awd conversion. His rear dif sits back about.....2 inches?

There are also pictures of a real rti civic that shows the location as well. So the 2dr coupe seems to have it bolted in the same location but alot lower because of the rear subframe.

 

Yes, I will be using the CRV driveline. The diff does sit lower and back further in the RTi due to the rear subframe design. The car also sits higher to give the diff and subframe ground clearance. If I want my diff to sit any further back, I will have to cut into my rear subframe, which is something I am trying to avoid. If it comes to that though, I will not hesitate to do so.

 

I notice when you did a test fitment you had raised your wheel height to where it would be as if the car was sitting on the ground. Hopefully if your current location works. The angle of the rear axle is kinda off though.