Your axle angles don't look "tooo" bad but being a CR-V owner I do know that when we lift them there is a point where it's to much. I can't remember off hand how much of a lift it takes to screw things up (axle angle) but I'm guessing a quick search or a post in the CR-V thread would get some quick answers. I guess another problem is if you move the diff backwards to get less angle on the axles you will have to get new ones for the proper length and then another drive shaft? Here's my positive vibes for your current setup working just fine!!! Cheers bud and keep up the good work.

Berz out.

 

If I end up moving the diff further back then yes I will have to have another driveline shortened. I'm also considering using '02-06 CR-V rear axles as the are just slightly longer and I do have the room to run them. Also, Insane Shafts makes axles for the 2nd gen that are rated up to 500hp. Just a thought...

 

 

I have been planing to awd swap my hatch this winter. This thread has been very helpfull for me to figure out how im gonna go about this. Thanks and keep up the good work!

 

Really good work, congratulations .
I have my plain EgRt4wd .
I have my Rt4wd wagon and second rt4wd all parts ,gearbox shaft rear diff vs

 

Great project

 

wtf...no pictures of the wheels rotating on its own? LEAVE

 

There's a video posted on the previous page. I wouldn't leave you guys hangin like that.

 

BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD!!

OK, well I went and made a full on ROOKIE mistake and this one is gonna cost me. I should have taken some better measurements and not just gone off of what I read from somebody else's work. In fact, I can't even find where I read this, so now I really feel dumb. What I thought that I had read is that I could use two passenger side rear axles and that would put the rear diff in the middle of the chassis. So, that is how I set up the rear end.

I can already hear you all saying, "Idiot... So what happened?" Took the Civic for it's first AWD test drive and all was well, at first. Got out of the driveway, down the street, and to a stop light with no issues. The rear locker had been off at this point, so really I was only driving in FWD. At the stop light I decided to turn the locker on to make it AWD. Light turned green and as I made a left I accelerated up to about 15-20mph when I heard a nasty pop and a terrible beating of something in the rear. I quickly pulled over and figured I blew up the rear diff. I got out and looked under the Civic, and to my surprise nothing was leaking and no carnage was found. Went to the back of the Civic and grabbed the drivers side axle that felt fine (slight play). Went to grab the passenger side axle, and that's when I found my problem. The axle shaft had completely come out of the inboard CV joint. I think once the rear diff was locked, any torque transferred to the rear wheels forces the axle shafts to be pushed rearward. With the diff where it is, the axle is too short and will be forced out of the inboard CV joint when under power. So I popped the axle back in as best I could and limped the Civic back to my buddy's place. Two of the roller bearings had come off of the shaft, so you can imagine how horrible it sounded to drive.

I tried not to panic and figured I would run down to the local O'Reilly and purchase a drivers side (longer) axle and try two of the longer axles instead of the shorter axles. I came back and installed the longer axles (I already had one from when I originally picked up the CR-V drivetrain), which is a PITA. Either the diff has to be dropped, or the trailing arms have to come out to remove the axles. Right away I could tell they were too long. The RTAs had to be pushed out to fit the longer axles, so now the tires are rubbing on the fenders and I'm sure the toe adjustment is way out. I went with it anyways and tried it out. Got it on the ground, locked the rear diff, and crossed my fingers. **** WORKED!! Well, sort of. It was making some loud noises once I got it on the street. Noises that kept getting louder and once I made it back to the house, I could feel the rear end binding up even with the diff unlocked. The axles where too long and the ends of the shafts were rubbing on the inside of the CV joints causing a ton of friction. So that's it, I have to move the diff and run the different length axles...

So what is the real problem here? Well a couple of things... Let's start where I should have and look at the differences between the Civic and CR-V

The track measures 58.1" on the Civic and 60.4" on the CR-V. This means the the CR-V is just under 2" wider than the Civic. That number right there should have set off red flags. The length of the drivers side rear axle is 31.125" and the length of the passenger side is 29.125". Add these two numbers up and you get 60.25". See where this is going?? If you add up two of the shorter axles you get 58.25", THAT'S 2" SHORTER THAN FACTORY! Now this could have worked if I didn't set the diff 4" towards the front of the Civic and away from the center of the rear wheel bearings. If I had made it to where the axles and diff where more perpendicular, then using two short axles would have been no problem and I could have run equal length rear axles like I originally wanted to. But that meant cutting into the body and rear subframe which I did, and still do not want to do.

So this takes us to V1.2 of this build. I can bang out the body in the fuel tank area and move back the rear diff by another 1/2 - 3/4" without getting into the rear subframe. I will also now move the diff over to the passenger side by 1" and use one long and one short axle. Another thing that I think screwed me up is that I when I set up the rear diff using the axles, the CV boots where still on so was never able to see the inside of the joints. This time I will remove the boots so that I can see exactly what the shafts and bearings are doing inside of the joints.

So why am I telling you all of this instead of just fixing it and saying it all worked out great?? Probably so you can learn from my mistakes and not have to go through this mess if you are attempting a similar build. Ya, I'm pretty pissed at myself, but I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong and I'm not quitting. I'm even thinking that if this doesn't work then I will try out the slightly longer rear axles from the '02-06 CR-V. And if that still doesn't work, well... I'll have to get into the rear subframe and the body. I'll keep everyone updated...

 

Thanks for the honesty and shitty that it didn't work out the first time. This kinda goes with my previous post "I guess another problem is if you move the diff backwards to get less angle on the axles you will have to get new ones for the proper length" I never thought yours would be to short but now that I read what you posted it makes sense. You'll have to move it backwards to get them the correct length. I guess I was half correct. Wouldn't getting custom axles made simplify you having to move everything else around?

Berz out.

 

Don't lose hope!

 

I knew shorter axles would be needed if the diff was moved rear ward.
GL with whatever is next!

 

[QUOTE=BigBerz;51082622]Thanks for the honesty and shitty that it didn't work out the first time. This kinda goes with my previous post "I guess another problem is if you move the diff backwards to get less angle on the axles you will have to get new ones for the proper length" I never thought yours would be to short but now that I read what you posted it makes sense. You'll have to move it backwards to get them the correct length. I guess I was half correct. Wouldn't getting custom axles made simplify you having to move everything else around?

Hey, it's a learning experience and not just for me. Having custom axles made would make it easy on me as far as not having to move everything, but I think in the long run that would just be a bandaid. Not to mention how ridiculously expensive custom axles are. I also have a feeling that if I asked any place to make axles for the setup I have right now, they would just laugh. The angles are crazy and I doubt anyone in their right mind wants to have anything to do with the liability issues that may come up. I need to put the work in and move the diff.

I am constantly losing it, but somehow I seem to find it again.

The track distance on the Civic is just under 2" shorter than the CR-V. Utilizing two short (passenger side) axles comes out to be exactly 2" shorter than utilizing one short and one long (drivers side) axle. So yeah, if you had the rear diff mounted almost perpendicular to the rear wheel bearings, then using two short axles would not be a problem. The diff would just have to be mounted in the center of the chassis.

 

You should definitely mount the diff in the center. Besides using the same length axles, the driveshaft will also line up straight between trans and diff.
I didn't know you were running different lengths and the diff was offset.
I'm sure the driveshaft at an angle would not be good on some parts. Not 100% sure though.

 

I hate to say I told you so about the axles, but.....................

All you can do is keep your head up and sort through the issues as they come. The only downside is now you will have to get the driveshaft lengthened and that is MUCH harder to do than shortening one. Keep in mind that carrier bearing part of the propeller shaft is no different than a CV U-joint like on the front and rear axles. Too much inward pressure and it can bind or shatter the cup, too far out and the tripod can slip out or strip the end of the cup. This spacing / preload needs to be taken into account when modifiying these driveshafts. Good Luck!

 

Getting a different drive shaft made to the correct length would be the best option. I seem to recall Darry saying you had one? There are plenty at my local wrecker so I can't imagine it would be to hard to come by.

Berz out.

 

*SLAP*

KEEP IT TOGETHER NIKKA AND GET BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD.

 

Actually, running different length axles is what Honda does in their CR-V. The transaxle is not centered in the CR-V, therefore the rear diff must be offset in the vehicle to truly run a straight driveline between the diff and the transaxle. I don't think that angle on u-joints and center section of the driveline were too extreme when I had the diff mounted in the center of the Civic, but that's me thinking again.

I know, I know. And you know I don't listen, especially when it's good advice from knowledgable people with experience . But not to worry, I do learn from my mistakes and this will get sorted out. I think I will scrap this driveline and just pick up another one to start over with rather than trying to lengthen this one. I picked this one up from a junk yard for $90, so not too worried about starting over there. I'll have to see where the diff ends up next and go from there.

Just what I was thinking/saying. Fortunately that won't be a problem.

Is that what the five fingers just said to my face?? Certainly felt that way. Don't worry, I've gone way too far to turn back now. Some bumps in the road were to be expected. I'm back at it as we speak/I type.

Thanks everyone for sticking it out with me. We'll get er done...

 

Oh ok, I assumed the transaxle was centered in the front of the car, therefore I said to center the diff as well so the drive shaft is also centered.

If the transaxle is not centered and is offset, I don't understand why you will center the diff and use the same legnth axles.
Yea the diff moves rearward, and the axles sit fine, but at the expense of the driveshaft being angled.
I think it would be best to move the diff rearward to keep the axles going from the diff to the hub in straight line.
Also use one long axle and one short axle so the drive shaft is running truly straight with the transaxle and not put that unneeded strain on the axles that is there now, or the driveshaft.
Thats just me though.

 

Not only your thoughts,
He doesn't want to remove the rear beam, therefore diff cannot go back more than let's say an inch as much.
Darry, now that you are to source a new shaft,
Look for narrower design support bearing.
The CRV support bearing ID 25mm support console anchor point 180mm
Suzuki baleno, key, wagon R, all these use the same 25mm ID bearing but with more concealed support bracket with anchor points at 140mm
The Sizuki bearing will clear the path for the exhaust, now that you have to move the diff use the occasion and replace it.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the problem wasn't the beam, it was that the dif was not properly position because he used 2 passenger side axles. Since everything is already in place the next thing you'll have to do is just get custom axles. Right? Or do you want a way to use instant replacements from a parts store? If its plan B, than you'll have to reposition the dif mount that you custom, which means its probably gonna move to the right (when facing the rear bumper) a little bit.

 

I ended up moving the diff approximately 1" to the passenger's side of the Civic and even got it to move back about 3/4". I took all of the boots off of the axles this time when I was setting up the diff so that I could see what they where actually doing. There is plenty of side-to-side movement (back and forth within the CV joints) and no binding. There is also no way shafts can come out of the joints now. Unless something breaks of course. I was even able to reuse the driveline as it is for now. The mount for the center diff has a rubber connection, so I was able to stretch it to the mounting points. This is not ideal, but for right now in this testing mode, it will work. I'm feeling much better about the position of the diff and using the different length axles. Got the Civic back on the ground, locked the diff, and down the driveway when I decided to just give it a tiny little launch. Nothing crazy, just figured if anything was going to break I wouldn't be far from the house. That's when this happened...









Damnet!! Well I had my doubts that those tiny little u-joints where going to last long. I've seen other people have some luck with them for a while, but OneBadTurboCRV told me that this is a common occurrence with the rear u-joints on the CR-V even with mild power upgrades. So back to the drawing board again. I'll bring it back to the driveshaft shop and see what ideas they have. If all else fails, I will look into piecing a driveshaft from a Suzuki Samurai or possibly something DSM. Unfortunately I will have to have the driveline remade before I know for sure that the position of the diff now is going to work.

Just a couple of pis with some measurements. I banged in the body in the fuel tank area a little so that I could set the diff back further. The only thing in the way now is the rear subframe. The rear diff mount is as close to the subframe as it can get without touching. Also took some measurements of where the axles are and where they could go if I do in fact have to get into the subframe. So I'll get back down to the driveshaft shop this week and let you all know what they say...

 

weak *** joint...

 

or
Support bearing way too in front regarding the diff.
Diff mounts too stiff
​​​​​​Axles not straight.
All above causes excessive bent forces on all components, when all is meant to rotate and you yaw it. Don't be surprised when it breaks.
Check the bushings on the diff are not too stiff. Top diff bushings, you haven't put on top of diff but at the ends of the support bar. So no space the diff to flex. And this is needed.
​​​​​​Further in the launch, the diff tries to rotate opposite to the axle rotation to the back, at the same time center bearing is overextended and has a limited play till it hit a sort of a bump stop. Shafts are at heavy angle adding additional yaw forces to the diff, therefore the U joint is excessively stressed to act more as a bar. So on snaps.
Lucky you didn't broke the diff case.
​​​Now that you have applied the Newton's 2nd law of motion, to all the rotating assembly, time to stop and open the thick books.
Believe me I really wish you to succeed, that's why I am so critical.
For a moment you need to forget all you have read in the www, and begin using more common logic, rather than follow someone's steps, and false encouragement.
​​​​And most important, before you take any step, spend only few clicks more before actually do it.
You will be surprised where reconsideration leads.

Sorry guys but all you encouraging Darry to make wrong turns, just doesn't play fair.

First rule be honest,
Second, go straight to the point.
Third, think three times before you open your mouth or grab the saw

Just being honest.
Time for bacon and egs.

 

Here is some more "false encouragement" for you OP...

I love this project! Its the only one that I actively follow on HT. Keep up the hard work even if it leads to failure sometimes. I can't wait to see the final results.