200HP SOHC
11-09-2004, 11:00 AM
#26
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Re: 200HP SOHC (BDTURBO)
Welp I dont have this setup anymore, but I dyno'd at 212hp with a stock d16y8, except for a blockguard, with a sc50,mf2 etc.... I was on 12psi and drove it for about 6 mos till i swapped motors
Modified by turbochic at 3:23 PM 11/10/2004
Modified by turbochic at 3:23 PM 11/10/2004
11-09-2004, 11:13 AM
#27
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Re: (boostincoupe)
I made 188whp and 167wtq running greddy kit on a 93 d16z6 with 150k @ 8psi. i had a 255lph bbk fuel pump and the greddy blue box. pretty good for 8 psi and blue box. I think the much larger spearco intercooler helped alot and 65mm T/B helped.
I bet with the right equipment ( good intercooler, good flowing exhaust, good flowing chargepipes and intake manifold) and some good tuning you could hit 200 @ 8psi. with a turbo cam you could probably do it easy @ 8 psi.
I bet with the right equipment ( good intercooler, good flowing exhaust, good flowing chargepipes and intake manifold) and some good tuning you could hit 200 @ 8psi. with a turbo cam you could probably do it easy @ 8 psi.
11-09-2004, 11:47 AM
#28
at the jetties fishin'
Re: (BDTURBO)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BDTURBO »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but if i have the blue box i dont have to tune correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have nothing more than the blue box and I've been running around with my greddy kit for the past 2, count em 2 years running 10psi without a single problem.
I dont need no stinking injectors or uberdata
I have nothing more than the blue box and I've been running around with my greddy kit for the past 2, count em 2 years running 10psi without a single problem.
I dont need no stinking injectors or uberdata
11-09-2004, 04:51 PM
#29
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Re: (stackz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stackz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have nothing more than the blue box and I've been running around with my greddy kit for the past 2, count em 2 years running 10psi without a single problem.
I dont need no stinking injectors or uberdata </TD></TR></TABLE>
******' right! Ditto
I have nothing more than the blue box and I've been running around with my greddy kit for the past 2, count em 2 years running 10psi without a single problem.
I dont need no stinking injectors or uberdata </TD></TR></TABLE>
******' right! Ditto
11-11-2004, 07:28 PM
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Re: (boostincoupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostincoupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
******' right! Ditto</TD></TR></TABLE> How many times have you guys had your head lift? Get a clue.
******' right! Ditto
</TD></TR></TABLE> How many times have you guys had your head lift? Get a clue.
11-14-2004, 11:34 AM
#35
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Re: (turbozxi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbozxi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> How many times have you guys had your head lift? Get a clue. </TD></TR></TABLE>
the **** are you talking about?
My head has lifted once, and that's due to the fact that the head has been off the car before I bought it (I didn't know this), and now that the head's fully rebuilt with new seals, guides, 3 angle valve job, ARP headstuds PROPERLY TORQUED w/moly lube, and OEM HG with copper spray...she's running great.
</TD></TR></TABLE>the **** are you talking about?
My head has lifted once, and that's due to the fact that the head has been off the car before I bought it (I didn't know this), and now that the head's fully rebuilt with new seals, guides, 3 angle valve job, ARP headstuds PROPERLY TORQUED w/moly lube, and OEM HG with copper spray...she's running great.
11-14-2004, 04:21 PM
#36
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Re: (boostincoupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostincoupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
the **** are you talking about?
My head has lifted once, and that's due to the fact that the head has been off the car before I bought it (I didn't know this), and now that the head's fully rebuilt with new seals, guides, 3 angle valve job, ARP headstuds PROPERLY TORQUED w/moly lube, and OEM HG with copper spray...she's running great. </TD></TR></TABLE> Fair enough, your not giving good advice though are you? If you want a reliable car don't run 10psi on fmu with stock injectors... The idea of this board is help out people or learn new things, not to reccomend some utter crap that most likely will result in a blown engine. 
the **** are you talking about?
My head has lifted once, and that's due to the fact that the head has been off the car before I bought it (I didn't know this), and now that the head's fully rebuilt with new seals, guides, 3 angle valve job, ARP headstuds PROPERLY TORQUED w/moly lube, and OEM HG with copper spray...she's running great.
</TD></TR></TABLE> Fair enough, your not giving good advice though are you? If you want a reliable car don't run 10psi on fmu with stock injectors... The idea of this board is help out people or learn new things, not to reccomend some utter crap that most likely will result in a blown engine.
11-14-2004, 06:27 PM
#37
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Re: (turbozxi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbozxi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Fair enough, your not giving good advice though are you? If you want a reliable car don't run 10psi on fmu with stock injectors... The idea of this board is help out people or learn new things, not to reccomend some utter crap that most likely will result in a blown engine. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not running a FMU, and neither is stackz...we're running the greddy blue box, which lengthens the injector pulsewidth under boost, not raise the fuel pressure like a FMU does. Check your info.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I'm not running a FMU, and neither is stackz...we're running the greddy blue box, which lengthens the injector pulsewidth under boost, not raise the fuel pressure like a FMU does. Check your info.
11-14-2004, 07:11 PM
#38
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Re: (boostincoupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostincoupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm not running a FMU, and neither is stackz...we're running the greddy blue box, which lengthens the injector pulsewidth under boost, not raise the fuel pressure like a FMU does. Check your info.</TD></TR></TABLE> Regardless of typo, the duty cycle on the injectors and standard ignition timing alone are dangerous enough. Let alone the non existant tune.
I'm not running a FMU, and neither is stackz...we're running the greddy blue box, which lengthens the injector pulsewidth under boost, not raise the fuel pressure like a FMU does. Check your info.</TD></TR></TABLE> Regardless of typo, the duty cycle on the injectors and standard ignition timing alone are dangerous enough. Let alone the non existant tune.
11-15-2004, 03:55 AM
#40
at the jetties fishin'
Re: (turbozxi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbozxi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Regardless of typo, the duty cycle on the injectors and standard
ignition timing alone are dangerous enough. Let alone the non existant tune. </TD></TR></TABLE>
eh?? you're on crack.
like I said, been running 2 years on 10psi with the stock fueling system and a greddy blue box. I've never had "head lift" problems, never had a bad blip from an injector due to the extended duty cycles, nor have I EVER had a hint of detonation.
There's NO NEED FOR A TUNE with the blue box good lord. The stock ecu is perfectly capable of running the engine with the added assistance to the fueling curve provided by the blue box interpreting the boost through the map sensor, and the adjustments it makes to the ignition retard per pound of boost (yes, that's what those EXTRA wires from the blue box does...ooooo voodoo oooooo).
only time you EVER need to tune something is when you start from scratch basically, like when you've got hondata, etc.
absolutely nothing wrong with I and others have done. Only limitation to the blue box is that you can't run over ~11psi on it as the factory map sensor reaches its voltage limits at this level. blue box is only setup to read off a 1bar map sensor...not 2 or 3bar like aftermarket ones.
Oh, and as for the duty cycle on the blue box at 10psi, I borrowed a vafc a few months ago from a friend and even at full boost my injectors were only at 86% duty cycle....still lots left and well within tolerances for a proper spray pattern.
this is NOT speculation, it is ******* fact.
ignition timing alone are dangerous enough. Let alone the non existant tune. </TD></TR></TABLE>
eh?? you're on crack.
like I said, been running 2 years on 10psi with the stock fueling system and a greddy blue box. I've never had "head lift" problems, never had a bad blip from an injector due to the extended duty cycles, nor have I EVER had a hint of detonation.
There's NO NEED FOR A TUNE with the blue box good lord. The stock ecu is perfectly capable of running the engine with the added assistance to the fueling curve provided by the blue box interpreting the boost through the map sensor, and the adjustments it makes to the ignition retard per pound of boost (yes, that's what those EXTRA wires from the blue box does...ooooo voodoo oooooo).
only time you EVER need to tune something is when you start from scratch basically, like when you've got hondata, etc.
absolutely nothing wrong with I and others have done. Only limitation to the blue box is that you can't run over ~11psi on it as the factory map sensor reaches its voltage limits at this level. blue box is only setup to read off a 1bar map sensor...not 2 or 3bar like aftermarket ones.
Oh, and as for the duty cycle on the blue box at 10psi, I borrowed a vafc a few months ago from a friend and even at full boost my injectors were only at 86% duty cycle....still lots left and well within tolerances for a proper spray pattern.
this is NOT speculation, it is ******* fact.
11-15-2004, 05:07 AM
#41
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Re: (stackz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stackz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
eh?? you're on crack.
like I said, been running 2 years on 10psi with the stock fueling system and a greddy blue box. I've never had "head lift" problems, never had a bad blip from an injector due to the extended duty cycles, nor have I EVER had a hint of detonation.
There's NO NEED FOR A TUNE with the blue box good lord. The stock ecu is perfectly capable of running the engine with the added assistance to the fueling curve provided by the blue box interpreting the boost through the map sensor, and the adjustments it makes to the ignition retard per pound of boost (yes, that's what those EXTRA wires from the blue box does...ooooo voodoo oooooo).
only time you EVER need to tune something is when you start from scratch basically, like when you've got hondata, etc.
absolutely nothing wrong with I and others have done. Only limitation to the blue box is that you can't run over ~11psi on it as the factory map sensor reaches its voltage limits at this level. blue box is only setup to read off a 1bar map sensor...not 2 or 3bar like aftermarket ones.
Oh, and as for the duty cycle on the blue box at 10psi, I borrowed a vafc a few months ago from a friend and even at full boost my injectors were only at 86% duty cycle....still lots left and well within tolerances for a proper spray pattern.
this is NOT speculation, it is ******* fact. </TD></TR></TABLE>
eh?? you're on crack.
like I said, been running 2 years on 10psi with the stock fueling system and a greddy blue box. I've never had "head lift" problems, never had a bad blip from an injector due to the extended duty cycles, nor have I EVER had a hint of detonation.
There's NO NEED FOR A TUNE with the blue box good lord. The stock ecu is perfectly capable of running the engine with the added assistance to the fueling curve provided by the blue box interpreting the boost through the map sensor, and the adjustments it makes to the ignition retard per pound of boost (yes, that's what those EXTRA wires from the blue box does...ooooo voodoo oooooo).
only time you EVER need to tune something is when you start from scratch basically, like when you've got hondata, etc.
absolutely nothing wrong with I and others have done. Only limitation to the blue box is that you can't run over ~11psi on it as the factory map sensor reaches its voltage limits at this level. blue box is only setup to read off a 1bar map sensor...not 2 or 3bar like aftermarket ones.
Oh, and as for the duty cycle on the blue box at 10psi, I borrowed a vafc a few months ago from a friend and even at full boost my injectors were only at 86% duty cycle....still lots left and well within tolerances for a proper spray pattern.
this is NOT speculation, it is ******* fact.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
11-15-2004, 03:08 PM
#42
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Re: (stackz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stackz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
eh?? you're on crack.
like I said, been running 2 years on 10psi with the stock fueling system and a greddy blue box. I've never had "head lift" problems, never had a bad blip from an injector due to the extended duty cycles, nor have I EVER had a hint of detonation.
There's NO NEED FOR A TUNE with the blue box good lord. The stock ecu is perfectly capable of running the engine with the added assistance to the fueling curve provided by the blue box interpreting the boost through the map sensor, and the adjustments it makes to the ignition retard per pound of boost (yes, that's what those EXTRA wires from the blue box does...ooooo voodoo oooooo).
only time you EVER need to tune something is when you start from scratch basically, like when you've got hondata, etc.
absolutely nothing wrong with I and others have done. Only limitation to the blue box is that you can't run over ~11psi on it as the factory map sensor reaches its voltage limits at this level. blue box is only setup to read off a 1bar map sensor...not 2 or 3bar like aftermarket ones.
Oh, and as for the duty cycle on the blue box at 10psi, I borrowed a vafc a few months ago from a friend and even at full boost my injectors were only at 86% duty cycle....still lots left and well within tolerances for a proper spray pattern.
this is NOT speculation, it is ******* fact. </TD></TR></TABLE> Calm down .
We will never see eye to eye on the tuning issue so I'll drop that. But since your claiming to run 10psi no problems with stock injectors on your blue box, I'd have to say your probably making very little HP compared to what you could be making.
The ******* fact claim backed up by using a friends vafc is laughable.
Your injectors are 240cc correct?.
[Originally posted by BlueShadow]
You can go with any size injector that meets your HP goal with a standalone. And as long as you aren't running the injectors at really high duty cycles you are fine too.
Here is something I posted up on po.com a while back, it tells us what the various HP limit is for a injector size. The HP numbers are for stock fuel pressure, and 100% injector duty cycle, I suspect that they are a bit off so dont use it as a solution to your problem. I would still take the injector size and ask around to see if they are the right size.
EDIT: by raising the fuel pressure you can get more fuel from the injectors, and remember since the HP numbers are for 100% duty cycle, you should select the next highest sized injector for you HP goal.
270cc = 187 HP
310cc = 214 HP
320cc = 220 HP
370cc = 256 HP
400cc = 277 HP
440cc = 304 HP
450cc = 311 HP
500cc = 346 HP
550cc = 380 HP
600cc = 415 HP
650cc = 450 HP
800cc = 554 HP
880cc = 609 HP
[Modified by BlueShadow, 7:09 AM 1/2/2003]
eh?? you're on crack.
like I said, been running 2 years on 10psi with the stock fueling system and a greddy blue box. I've never had "head lift" problems, never had a bad blip from an injector due to the extended duty cycles, nor have I EVER had a hint of detonation.
There's NO NEED FOR A TUNE with the blue box good lord. The stock ecu is perfectly capable of running the engine with the added assistance to the fueling curve provided by the blue box interpreting the boost through the map sensor, and the adjustments it makes to the ignition retard per pound of boost (yes, that's what those EXTRA wires from the blue box does...ooooo voodoo oooooo).
only time you EVER need to tune something is when you start from scratch basically, like when you've got hondata, etc.
absolutely nothing wrong with I and others have done. Only limitation to the blue box is that you can't run over ~11psi on it as the factory map sensor reaches its voltage limits at this level. blue box is only setup to read off a 1bar map sensor...not 2 or 3bar like aftermarket ones.
Oh, and as for the duty cycle on the blue box at 10psi, I borrowed a vafc a few months ago from a friend and even at full boost my injectors were only at 86% duty cycle....still lots left and well within tolerances for a proper spray pattern.
this is NOT speculation, it is ******* fact.
</TD></TR></TABLE> Calm down .We will never see eye to eye on the tuning issue so I'll drop that. But since your claiming to run 10psi no problems with stock injectors on your blue box, I'd have to say your probably making very little HP compared to what you could be making.
The ******* fact claim backed up by using a friends vafc is laughable.
Your injectors are 240cc correct?.
[Originally posted by BlueShadow]
You can go with any size injector that meets your HP goal with a standalone. And as long as you aren't running the injectors at really high duty cycles you are fine too.
Here is something I posted up on po.com a while back, it tells us what the various HP limit is for a injector size. The HP numbers are for stock fuel pressure, and 100% injector duty cycle, I suspect that they are a bit off so dont use it as a solution to your problem. I would still take the injector size and ask around to see if they are the right size.
EDIT: by raising the fuel pressure you can get more fuel from the injectors, and remember since the HP numbers are for 100% duty cycle, you should select the next highest sized injector for you HP goal.
270cc = 187 HP
310cc = 214 HP
320cc = 220 HP
370cc = 256 HP
400cc = 277 HP
440cc = 304 HP
450cc = 311 HP
500cc = 346 HP
550cc = 380 HP
600cc = 415 HP
650cc = 450 HP
800cc = 554 HP
880cc = 609 HP
[Modified by BlueShadow, 7:09 AM 1/2/2003]
11-15-2004, 03:30 PM
#43
at the jetties fishin'
Re: (turbozxi)
and I never said I was going for uber horsepower figures either did I? I simply went with the blue box because it's emission legal and I needed something that could pass without question in atlanta....and there's a lot of people like me in that situation.
yes, I know it runs the car rich at stock kit levels, yes, I know it is restrictive due to being a piggyback to the factory system, etc, etc, etc but its about emission ****'s in some parts of the country and I have/had to deal with them. This was the most logical route to simply get up and running under boost pressure. Then I started fiddling with it and figuring out what it was capable of and what it wasn't.
also, you have to realize that your pretty little fuel injector chart is only theoretical. A 240cc injector can support a maximum horsepower in one engine and either a higher or lower horsepower in a completely different engine...hell, it can support different horsepower levels in two completely identical engines at the same time because no matter how much of an assembly line you make engine building...engines are just a "Tad" different. I know people with identical engine/drivetrain/car combos that make different numbers with different power bands on the same dyno...explain that.
and another thing. there's a FINE line between raising either fuel pressure or duty cycle before you either distort the spray pattern of the injector or you start to affect emissions or something else like idle quality.
And yes, I admit I got a bit excited there for a minute but you need to see where I'm coming from. the blue box is a very viable low tune/low boost fueling alternative that doesn't get the credit it deserves and I hate when people just bash the ever loving **** out of it for no reason, so yes I get defensive of it.
hell, where else are you going to be able to find a fueling solution for $50 new for any turbo setup running 10psi or less?? unless you can get a 749 GM ecu from the junkyard and manage to rewire the car I dont think you can. even the vortec-style fmu's run $100 new.
I absolutely advocate the blue box to anyone who is newbie enough at FI but good enough at bolting on parts and splicing wires....
and yes, if I wanted to get serious with the car I would step up to a full engine rebuild with forged internals and a standalone of my choosing but I'm quite happy with 10psi when I want it and the ability to jump on the emission station without thinking twice.
but this is just me.
yes, I know it runs the car rich at stock kit levels, yes, I know it is restrictive due to being a piggyback to the factory system, etc, etc, etc but its about emission ****'s in some parts of the country and I have/had to deal with them. This was the most logical route to simply get up and running under boost pressure. Then I started fiddling with it and figuring out what it was capable of and what it wasn't.
also, you have to realize that your pretty little fuel injector chart is only theoretical. A 240cc injector can support a maximum horsepower in one engine and either a higher or lower horsepower in a completely different engine...hell, it can support different horsepower levels in two completely identical engines at the same time because no matter how much of an assembly line you make engine building...engines are just a "Tad" different. I know people with identical engine/drivetrain/car combos that make different numbers with different power bands on the same dyno...explain that.
and another thing. there's a FINE line between raising either fuel pressure or duty cycle before you either distort the spray pattern of the injector or you start to affect emissions or something else like idle quality.
And yes, I admit I got a bit excited there for a minute but you need to see where I'm coming from. the blue box is a very viable low tune/low boost fueling alternative that doesn't get the credit it deserves and I hate when people just bash the ever loving **** out of it for no reason, so yes I get defensive of it.
hell, where else are you going to be able to find a fueling solution for $50 new for any turbo setup running 10psi or less?? unless you can get a 749 GM ecu from the junkyard and manage to rewire the car I dont think you can. even the vortec-style fmu's run $100 new.
I absolutely advocate the blue box to anyone who is newbie enough at FI but good enough at bolting on parts and splicing wires....
and yes, if I wanted to get serious with the car I would step up to a full engine rebuild with forged internals and a standalone of my choosing but I'm quite happy with 10psi when I want it and the ability to jump on the emission station without thinking twice.
but this is just me.
11-15-2004, 04:05 PM
#44
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Re: (stackz)
I see where your coming from.
I personally wouldn't be running 10psi on it. For lower boost levels sure. Be interested to see what kind of numbers you are making because those injectors even when taking into account much higher fuel pressure have basically got to be tapped out.
None the less. Goodluck
I personally wouldn't be running 10psi on it. For lower boost levels sure. Be interested to see what kind of numbers you are making because those injectors even when taking into account much higher fuel pressure have basically got to be tapped out.
None the less. Goodluck
11-15-2004, 07:58 PM
#45
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Re: (turbozxi)
stackz you're my ******* dog 
Greddy blue box for turbo n00bies, emissions ****** and lazy people like me
Greddy blue box for turbo n00bies, emissions ****** and lazy people like me
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ls95hatch
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11-20-2003 12:09 PM
