I'll be increasing the deck height on a B18c1 as soon as I receive my short block.
It will be an increase of 1.75" total. I have all the mechanics worked out I just need some help with the cam and ignition timing adjustments. I just read the post of the guy who milled way to much off his head and decided I should find out NOW what i need to do. I like to be prepared. Any info or experiences will be much appreciated.

 

Anybody?

 

wow, 1.75" would be crazy, what timing belt are u using? and what bore size and stroke? also R/S ratio?

 

When it's all together:
B18c1 block
Custom 85mm sleeves hopefully GE's Godzilla if they'll do them otherwise I'll make them Myself.
Deckplate 1.75" tall with copper o-rings built in (that I'll definately post when I get it back.
Some Endyn roller~wave pistons matced to a set of their light-weight rods (custom length of course) Got the money now just gotta order them.
I forgot a 95mm crower stroker crank was a thought but not sure.
B16a head with ferrea rollers and the mild turbo cams..
I was going to get the head ported first but haven't decided by who yet maybe Endyn any thoughts on this?
The belt tensioner I was going to cut it down in size and add a groove so it can't slip out.
The R/S will be like 1.80:1 W/stock crank.
Stroker it'd be like 1.68:1 Off the top of my head. It sounds right.
I just haven't gotten the ignition down, nor the cams. If you're wondering it will be
turbo'd by the end of next summer. Nice little winter project don't you think? If I left anything out let me know because I have it written down somewhere.

 

damn, what will the displacement be? 2.3? 2.5? anyway, i think u will need a customer made timing belt, right(since none of OE belt can fit in this setup)?
for piston, i recommand arias.
about the head, call the guy in my link up, they got some dude that work very good at that.

 

Nope, I'm making a idler pulley so I can use a toda belt. I'm sticking with my pistons of choice the Endyn roller~waves. I might not port it depends on how long
it'll take me to buy my turbo set-up for it. If I do I can do that myself or just have Endyn do it while their working my combustion chambers and valve seats thanks for the help, but I need help with Ignition and Cam timing.

 

A 1.75" deck plate is quite simply ridiculous. Do you realize that more than half of the piston travel will be in the deck plate, and not even in the block? How are you planning to fit this under your hood? How are you planning to balance the rotating assembly out without a custom crank and counterbalance shaft? Are you aware that you'll have a connecting rod that's 7.18" long?! Lastly, if you have all your math worked out except the timing, why is it all wrong?...

stock B18C1
bore: 81mm
stroke: 87.2mm
displacement: 1797cc
rod length: 137.9mm
deck height: 212mm
rod ratio: 1.58:1

your first combo w/ 1.75" deck plate (stock crank)
bore: 85mm
stroke: 87.2mm
displacement: 1979cc
rod length: 182.35mm
deck height: 256.45mm
rod ratio: 2.09:1

your second combo w/ 1.75" deck plate (stroker crank)
bore: 85mm
stroke: 95mm
displacement: 2156cc
rod length: 178.45mm
deck height: 256.45mm
rod ratio: 1.88:1


[Modified by texan, 11:44 AM 10/16/2002]

 

texan, what is the problem that u will see in a b18c with a long rod(let say between 6-6.5")? is that all about the vibration?

 

A 6" rod I could see, that would be just a touch over a .5" deck plate. But quite honestly I can't think of any remotely high RPM gasoline engine that uses rods longer than 6.6", and even that's pushing it IMO. Basically the reason you don't see anything longer than that is the rod becomes so heavy that the exact reason for having a long rod (high r/s ratio, which helps for seriously high RPM power ability) also becomes a limiting factor in spinning to such RPM. For the balancing, the stock crank counter weights are not nearly large enough to offset the rod motion. The counterbalance shaft also doesn't have the lobe size necessary to counter the end to end vibration such a long rod will create as the big end reaches horizontal (I can explain this in greater depth if needed). If this were a flat four that wouldn't be an issue, but its an inline. Boiling it all down, it just doesn't make sense to me to run such a bizarre combo. There are two possible ways of getting the desired r/s ratio here; destroking or using another motor. Destroking doesn't make sense because the amount of displacement loss necessary to reach 2.1:1 rod ratio, even with a .5" deck plate added, would turn the 1.8L into a 1.5L. If you opened the bore up to 85mm, you'd still only end up with a 1.6L. The displacement loss will more than negate any perceived gains with a higher redline due to the high r/s ratio, and bottom end power will be a thing of the past (even the B16A will seem like a torquer compared to this gem).

The other option is the only one that makes sense. Basically you need at least 6 cylinders acheive a ~2:1 rod ratio at 1.8-2.2L of displacement and still have a workably small engine with sensibly long rods. Why do you think F1 cars have a 3L displacement and 12 cylinders?

 

You didn't read it right there cowboy. Hence I said not everything was listed. I'm aware the math may be off I did it in my head while typing. I have every thing planned out for the balancing already and my machine shop is working on it. I'm actually having custom light weight rods designed for application. This is all experimental. If you must know I'm building it for my masters in Mech. Eng. I'm building the valvetrain to spin to 10,000rpm, but I'm setting the redline at ~8,000rpm (not sure on this yet). Nothing is impossible, it will work and I could always use some help. F1 cars have 3L of displacement with 12 cylinders because they spin to ~15,000rpm and the more cylinders you have the more mass on the crank which in turn means more torque and faster acceleration and monster top-end at ~15,000rpm. I've been working on this project for a year and have incountered nothing but opposition I could use some support to do this. F1 also uses Titanium rods

I'm not worried about the hood I'll just make A cowl and deal with less visibility. It's going in my '90. I know it sounds ridiculous I wanna show that it can be done. I'll more the power band waaayy up there, and work from there.


[Modified by tzsir, 9:12 PM 10/16/2002]

 

Hey Texan, if you want to post smart-*** replies to legitimate questions & not attempt to actually help the poster, go play in "Member's Corner", and bash as many people as you want. No one cares how much you know when you're an *******.

Tzsir, here's my attempt at helping - good luck man!

Every .012" added to the stock height from crank to cams, on a B-series motor, will advance your timing one degree. This is fact. From here on out, the numbers get a bit crazy, so I may be wrong. It seems to me though, that you'll be running with your cams & ignition timing almost 146° advanced. This would mean that you'll need custom-made cam gears if you want to be able to keep track of where your cam timing really is, and a custom-made distributor to be able to get your ignitin timing back to anywhere NEAR stock. If you've got the resources, I say go for it!

 

Well excuse me. My bad, I suppose the next time I read a thread about swapping a Supra motor into someone's Civic hatch and converting it to rwd, I should help out any way I can so long as it's not to remind folks of reality. Had I known this were a senior thesis project I would have toned it down some, but alas that wasn't mentioned until now. And I think we all can agree (including tzsir) that if someone were simply doing this for the r/s ratio on their street car, it would be a VERY bad idea. The problems he's going to encounter, especially those no one has thought of yet, are going to take a great deal of time and money to work out.

Unless I'm mistaken the ignition timing is based off cam position, so indexing the cams should take care of the ignition timing as well. And he won't need to get cam gears with any unusual adjustability (there's no easy way to design in that level of adjustment anyway), he's going to need custom cams to deal with that sort of rod ratio to begin with and will just get them ground hugely advanced when they are constructed.


Tzsir- How are you going to balance the bottom end on this motor? And what sort of cam timing are you going to run? Also, why the 8000 RPM redline?