howdy all, i cant get my new b18b to start, and i have no spark. the really really weird thing is that there is no check engine light when i turn the key to 'on'.... would the distributor being bad be enough for this to not come on? or the timing off so badly? thanks!

 

A bad ignition switch would cause that... Or a bad main relay.

 

well, the thing is that the main relay would control the fuel pump, wouldn't it? and my fuel pump still primes and all

 

and also there is no oil pressure light.......just tryin to get this damned thing on the road!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WrongWD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... my fuel pump still primes and all</TD></TR></TABLE>well, you didn't say that in your first post... But that says your ignition switch is OK.

I don't see how the distributor can possibly cause the CEL to stay off.

Back to the main relay... It's like a couple relays in the same case. So the relay that powers the fuel pump is OK but the relay that powers the ECU & injectors is bad. Even though the distributor gets power directly, it won't fire the spark without a signal from the ECU. But the ECU isn't 'turned on' because the main relay hasn't switched on it's power...

You need a multi-meter & circuit drawings.

 

awesome, ill give it a shot, thanks so much!!!! would you suggest using the multimeter on the ecu to see if its getting any power? bump for more answers or speculations!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WrongWD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would you suggest using the multimeter on the ecu to see if its getting any power?</TD></TR></TABLE>Yes, but have a circuit drawing so you know where to check. What ECU?

For an OBD-1 Integra, the ECU gets power from the main relay, on yellow/black wires. Pins A25 & B1. The same circuit powers the injectors on their yellow/black wires.

I don't know whether the ECU pins are the same for other cars...

 

JimBlake your a whiz

 

yeah no joke, youve been super helpful! its a chipped p28 by the way

 

Start by answering these ?'s. How do you know you have no spark? How do you know you have fuel? Why do you think the timing is off? And why do you have a p28 on a b18b?

 

i have no spark because i tried grounding out a spark plug. i have fuel because i unbolted the fuel rail and there was plenty of fuel. im not sure the timing is off, just thought id check first. check http://www.pgmfi.org to learn about putting a p28 on a b18b. as i said, it has been chipped.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WrongWD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have no spark because i tried grounding out a spark plug. i have fuel because i unbolted the fuel rail and there was plenty of fuel...</TD></TR></TABLE>That's the kind of information we can deal with! So the pump works, but you don't know whether the injectors are firing. (Pull a plug after cranking - is it wet? Or use a noid light.)

The main relay powers the fuel pump with it's own separate circuit. Pin 2 of the main relay powers the ECU and the injectors. Make sure you get power from THERE. (Wait - I don't know whether it's the same pin # on all different cars?)

 

IF the fuel pump is priming, we can be reasonably sure that the ECU is recieving power as well - the ECU is what provides a ground to the second coil/second set of contacts inside the Main Relay which in turn provides power to the fuel pump.

The fact that your CEL and oil lamp aren't coming on tells me that the meter fuse in the underdash fuse box might actually be blown (usually 7.5A). Are any of your gauges working?

If the fuse is not blown, find the wire that connects the ECU to the CEL, unpin it and ground it - this should instantly illuminate the CEL.

 

i'd say replace your ignitor.......Had this happen last week...no spark just cranked and wouldn't turn over....a ignitor off of H-T for $40 started it right up

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EE_Chris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IF the fuel pump is priming, we can be reasonably sure that the ECU is recieving power as well - the ECU is what provides a ground to the second coil/second set of contacts inside the Main Relay which in turn provides power to the fuel pump.</TD></TR></TABLE>So the initial 2-second priming is controlled by the ECU? It's not built into the main relay? Then you're right - the ECU must be getting power.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zm_dawg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'd say replace your ignitor.....</TD></TR></TABLE>The ignitor can't do the other stuff. Like prevent the CEL from lighting up...

 

well my CEL wasn't on either......no spark.....just continued to crank and wouldn't start...

 

It is possible that the ignitor be out. And its very possible the CEL would not be on. If the engine does not start, the ECU does not know if ALL the sensors/relays are functional. There fore, if you have a buddy with a B18 of the same OBD, in this case I am assuming OBD1, swap out the distributor. Its only 3 bolts and some easy to locate plugs. 10 minutes of work to save you 10 hours of searching. Thats just my $.02

 

no buddies with ls's anyhow, so i pulled the plugs after cranking, and yes they are indeed wet with fuel.

i checked all fueses, and not a single one was blown. i dont know if my other gauges are working, because the motor doesnt run so i dont know!
however, the battery light does work.....

 

for real......i won't leave this thread until you do your ignitor.....i also changed coil before ignitor....but it did nothin....ignitor sparked the car right up

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JimBlake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So the initial 2-second priming is controlled by the ECU? It's not built into the main relay?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes sir - Main Relay fuel pump contacts are triggered by the ECU.

Scroll down to my response here for a schematic of the Main Relay

 

are you then suggesting that its not the main relay?

thanks!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WrongWD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are you then suggesting that its not the main relay?</TD></TR></TABLE>The ECU needs to be running in order to trigger the main relay to run the fuel pump. At first I guessed the 2-second priming was built into the main relay, so that initial priming would happen without the ECU's help. But I Chris says not... I'm not sure, he's probably right.

That means in order to make the pump run for it's 2-second priming, the ECU has to be powered up. So yeah - the main relay must be good.

You say the spark plug got wet with fuel. So the injectors must be firing...

Check to see whether you get power everywhere it's supposed to be. The yellow/black wires on the injectors, & at the distributor. Even with a good main relay, maybe you've got broken wires somewhere.

Got a multi-meter??

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zm_dawg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for real......i won't leave this thread until you do your ignitor...</TD></TR></TABLE>If there's power to the distributor, maybe it is ignitor or coil... but there's got to be something else, too, in order to explain everything.

But the ignitor feeds back to the tachometer. Is the tachometer doing anything while you crank? Maybe that's it after all...

 

no, tach isnt doing anything. fuel pump does the 2 second prime, injectors are firing, so now i guess i have to check for power. i dont know how it could be a broken wire somewhere, as I have 2 harnesses that i tried. aggghhhh just wanna get this thing on the road!!!

which wires on the distributor should be getting what kind of power?

by the way, i bought a brand new main relay from honda, didnt help

thanks!


Modified by WrongWD at 12:14 AM 10/22/2004

 

bump because im on the verge of crying about this

 

no, really. crying now.