petrv

Yesterday, I was on a truck with my 4G VTEC. After about 15 laps, the temperature increased from middle to maximum (in one lap, so the increase was quick). I slowed immedately, turned heating to max and cruised, so the temp decreased back to normal in about 2 minutes.

After I stopped, there was water near the water tank, on and under the battery etc., like it overflowed.

Some facts:
1) It was relatively cold, about 10C (50F), do I don't understand how could I get so hot.
2) Heating was set to a half all the time from the start.
3) Both the fans on the radiator are OK (tested after the run).
4) When I was downshifting to 2nd gear in turns, I sometimes saw "something white", like a smoke in my mirrors. I assumed it is my tires and didn't attend to it. Now I realize that it could be a white smoke from my muffler.
5) On my way home, the temp stayed in the middle all the time, and I tried to drive hard.
6) I found no other water leaks

When I got home, I made little research and pics:

I removed the plugs and #1 is more white than the other 3 (#1 is on the left side):


The plug #1 has also some deposits on it's one side:





At this moment, I realized that about 500miles ago, I checked all the plugs and #1 had some strange deposits on it's side, it was relatively big (about 4x4x4mm) and very strong, looked almost like a stone. I removed it with a screwdriver and returned back. The plugs had about 5000miles on it at that moment. Now I realize that the deposits look the same, only now it is a lot smaller (it has only 500miles from the "cleaning").

I found no oil in water or vice versa, but I found some strange chips on the radiator cover:






It looks like some deposits too, anyway, I looked on the cover the day before the truck and there was nothing like this.

What can this be? Maybe a bad head gasket? If I will replace the gasket, should I regrind the head to set it in level - note that the temp. increased to max on the indicator, so can the head be warped?

Thank you for you valuable info,
Petr.

averageJoe

i dont know whats wrong with your plugs, but nice camera

petrv

thx

Crazydave

Maybe your radiator isn't working good enough because it's all clogged up.

Warm it up.... until the fans turn on...
then feel the air being blown off the radiator in several spots.. the upper right corner vs. the lower left, and the upper left vs the lower right.. .. and in the middle...
they should all feel the same.. if one area feels hotter or cooler than another then you probably have a bad raditator.

but since your car was on the "Truck" I don't know why it was getting hot at all.. unless your truck was overheating

Crazydave

Does you car overheat just driving around town?

A quick test is to stick a smog tail pipe probe in the catchcan of the raditator, and have the technician check HC levels. If HC are way above whats hanging around in the engine bay you probably have a busted headgasket.

But i'd check the radiator first.

petrv

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crazydave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does you car overheat just driving around town?

A quick test is to stick a smog tail pipe probe in the catchcan of the raditator, and have the technician check HC levels. If HC are way above whats hanging around in the engine bay you probably have a busted headgasket.

But i'd check the radiator first.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, the temp stays exactly in the middle no matter how hard I drive on normal roads. And I drive really hard sometimes.

petrv

And what about the block and head warping because of that high temperature? Is it common to warp when overheated?

Crazydave

depends on the car and how overheated it gets

Ford tarusus usually ruin the heads when they overheat.. but I've seem some that have survived.

Crazydave

Is there anything blocking the radiator? are your fans turning on and off
have you tried a different radiator cap..
have you looked for leaks or pressure tested the cooling system

simple4012

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by averageJoe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont know whats wrong with your plugs, but nice camera</TD></TR></TABLE>

petrv

Today I did some other testing.

I started the engine and after about 1 minute (radiator was still cold), both upper and lower tube going to/from a radiator were very hard to press, I almost couldn't press it. You can see a short video here: www.volny.cz/veitel/prelude/overheat/tube.mpg (900kB) - I'm pressing it as hard as my weak hands can . The tube was soft before I started the car. Is this OK?

Next, after the engine warmed up, I made a video of my exhaust: www.volny.cz/veitel/prelude/overheat/exhaust.mpg (670kB). I don't know is this is OK, maybe there was still some water condensation in the exhuast.

Thanks, I really appreciate your try to help me.

crxsirvtec

2 things..

check your thermostat.. even replace it cheap!!

and flush your hole system.. with the stat out, engine off and cold, with a hose put it in the top rad hose and let the **** come out of the top of the rad..

try no to build up too much pressure..


also check your compression, might be a head gasket problem too..

petrv

So, today I made the "bubble test" and I have videos for you to discuss it.

When I started the car, there were no bubbles, but the coolant level was still rising, I mean it was still going up and overflowing, all the time. It looked like the engine is going to empty all the coolant:
http://www.volny.cz/veitel/prelude/o...t/overflow.mpg (1.2MB).

Once the thermostat opened, the bubbles started to go out of the radiator, even at idle, even when revving:
http://www.volny.cz/veitel/prelude/o...t/bubbles1.mpg (1.5MB).

So, it looks like a blown head gasket now, right?

crxsirvtec

also can be water pump not pumping right.. warped blades on the impeller..

rad just not working right..

Vtec92Civic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by averageJoe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont know whats wrong with your plugs, but nice camera</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeha no **** . . I second that! Those are some CRISP CLEAN up Close Pics!

Bump for the good detailed pics

Crazydave

sounds like you have a clogged radiator

thats why it's overflowing.. it's not recirculation throught the radiator.. so it's getting backed up and dumping out

petrv

So, the head is removed, I made it alone for the first time .

The head gasket was some aftermarket one, and it was probably some bad quality one. When I removed the gasket, there was still some layer of black color on the head and also on the block:





I scraped it down carefully with my fingernails.

Combustion chamber of piston #1 was again different from the others. The first exhaust valve has some deposites on it, similiar to deposits on the spark plug:




Compare it to nice valves form chamber #2, 3 and 4:


When I cleaned both the head and the block, I measured warpage of both:



I used a feeler gauge, the service limit is 0.05mm. The head and the block were prefectly flat, so there is no need for skimming I hope:


All cooling lines, paths, radiator etc. were perfectly clean, looke as new.

Now I have to wait for the new head gasket and put everything together. And I have some other question, see this pic:

If I have removed the camshaft holders, should I see a rubber O-ring of the oil orifice in the middle of the head? Or is the O-ring hidden (more deep in the head)? I can't see there any O-ring. I know that the O-rings on the 2 orifices near timing belt are hidden, but dunno in this case. Thank you!

jcda6

The black residue on the surface of the head and the block is just the remaining head gasket...like you said, if it is an aftermarket one, then it was an inferior one. OEM headgaskets are made of aluminum layers...

As far as the oil control orfice o-ring (say that ten times), it is underneath the middle cam cap and you should see it when the cam cap is removed.

-Jeff

ImAcracker

Where did you get your straight edge to check for warpage?

petrv

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jcda6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as the oil control orfice o-ring (say that ten times), it is underneath the middle cam cap and you should see it when the cam cap is removed.
-Jeff</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now I have read some text and they say to screw a bolt into the orifice, pull it out, replace the O-ring and put it back. So from this, it looks to be hidden (?)

petrv

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ImAcracker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where did you get your straight edge to check for warpage?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's a common steel ruler, it's width is about 5mm and it's height about 25mm, so it is very accurate. About $10 or so.

petrv

I have some more questions about puting everything together:

1) How to tighten the head? Some people say to tighten it to spec and let it be and others say that I should tighten it to spec, then loosen all the bolts and then finally tighten it to spec again. I will buy the OEM Honda gasket.

2) Should I retighten the head after a week, month or so? I mean to check if the head got loosened and recheck the torque.

3) Should I break the new head gasket in, or can I drive hard from the first mile?

petrv

I'm sorry, but I have another question

Can you say from this picture, if I have the intake/exhaust oil control orifices installed well? In my Helms, it looks like the exhaust orifice is higher than the intake one, but I have it installed vice versa, i.e. intake is higher. What do you think? BTW I have a 1995 H22.

crxsirvtec

After I stopped, there was water near the water tank, on and under the battery etc., like it overflowed.

this could be a rad cap..

a few years ago, my rad cap when on me.. all the antifreeze went into the overflow..

replaced the cap, worked fine..

leadfoot78

Those orifices look good, mine looked like that too and I never took them out, the middle o-ring should be visible, meaning if it's not in the grove around the orifice under the middle cam cap than u need to put the right o-ring there. Scrape all the head gasket material off, u can use steel wool, it will do it quick and won't hurt the surface as long as u don't use it a lot. Get a Honda head gasket, u don't have to tighten, loosen and then tighten the head onto the block again, thats required for some head STUDS and only if they are brand new, u also don't have to retighten the head either. Make sure u are tightening it to the right spec, nothing more, more will not seal better it will warp your head. Also follow the right tightening sequence, u should be fine with that, it's easy stuff.