hey guys i was wondering if anyone has purchased either a built long block or complete motor from IB?? http://www.importbuilders.com They look legit, and the parts for their packages are pretty sweet, but i just wanted to see what people think first-hand...

 

I back Jeff up 100%. He's awesome and I would definitely go thru with one of their motors.

 

I bought one, wouldn't do it again.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Alpha_GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I bought one, wouldn't do it again.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did you have a sleeve problem?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Alpha_GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I bought one, wouldn't do it again.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the problem[s] ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Alpha_GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I bought one, wouldn't do it again.</TD></TR></TABLE>

And what was the problem?

 

The problem I see is that they are soooo damn expensive. If they're engines last as long as they say they do, then all of the DIY people should call them up and ask them what they do to the motors to make them last and just use those parts and build it yourself.

 

I don't think any motor builder who does this for a living would give up their methods, advice, and build specs to just anybody.

And, not everybody can put a motor together with the proper methods, using the right tools.

 

If they are soo interested in selling you a motor for an arm, a leg and a left nut then they should tell you what they are going to put into this motor to make you want to buy it. If they don't tell me what they are going to do to the motor to make it last so long I am just thinking that they are gonna build me a motor that will last a tiny bit longer than the warranty using shitty parts.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Alpha_GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I bought one, wouldn't do it again.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you are going to post a comment like this without an explanation, then just leave it out next time.

 

My bad, I don't have time to check up all the time bro. But I'll explain if you'll just be patient.
First off, I had a Package 2 done in late January of 02' to my 94' GSR. They said it would be three weeks for them to complete it. Wrong!! I didn't get the car back until April. I kept on getting, "we don't have time to touch your car, we're still remodeling our shop." They should've told me that before I drove 6 hours to deliver my car to have it basically untouched for several weeks. BTW, I have no other car.
About three weeks later, Tomo tells me my block has finally been shipped out to GE and my head shipped out to Portflow. I call to check up every 2 days and everything seems to be going great.
In April, Tomo finally tells me that my car is ready and to pick it up on a Saturday. Well, when I got there 1pm(6hour drive), Jeff is barely tuning my car so I can drive it home. He goes on to do this on and off for hours, having me wait forever it seemed, I didn't leave until 11pm. (they should of done this before I got there). That's not even the bad part. Okay, I go there with a GSR motor, and to my dismay I see a freakin LS/VTEC in my engine bay!!! At this point I am boiling mad. Jerry is just saying, "I don't know man, I just take the orders from Jeff." Jeff finally comes out and says that I had wanted an LS/VTEC. Well, that's funny because even Tomo had written out the invoice and had it in Full GSR build-up and given it to me when I dropped off the car. I also have Jeff's e-mails saying full 2.0 GSR motor as well as 2 friends as witnesses, one a shop owner testifying we had stated nothing about a LS/VTEC and only full GSR. Why the hell would I want a sleeved LS block when I already had the GSR block to get sleeved! Anyhow when Tomo gets to the shop shortly after I did, he couldn't believe that Jeff screwed up that bad. All Tomo could say to me was, "No way, no way." BTW, Jeff wasn't even there when I first dropped off the car, so Tomo was responsible for everything and he assured me everything would be alright. Unfortunately, Jeff thinks he is always right.
Well, Jeff garauntees me that the LS/VTEC would be just as reliable, and that he doesn't even use GSR blocks in package 2's. He insisted that the LS block was far superior. Lie!! I later read an article by him stating the GSR/ITR block sleeved would be the ideal setup, leaving me to lose all trust and faith in Jeff as a person.
Problems:
Never got my GSR block back (should I report it stolen, I never agreed on trade)
After buying a new carpet for my car, (3 months after getting the car back) I find that my ECU is Freaking Civic VX ECU. I e-mailed Jeff and he said that he swapped it out because it does the same thing with HONDATA. And that I would not receive my ECU back because it functions the same. Yeah, I know that, but my GSR was worth 3x that of a VX. Shady!!
Also, I found my car detonating in the summer so I took it to Lawrence at DSR to tune and he told me my compression was 12:5-13:1. I had asked for 11:5. Jeff said "it's a little over 12:1. I told him it gets extremely hot in the summer where I live, and he said it would be alright. Wrong again!!
Last month I had to sell my block for it was too high comp for daily driving and upon taking it out, I was missing bolts on my S2 manifold and fuel rail.
The headgasket also had a leak in the back of the block, don't know what caused that though. I babied the car and rarely beat on it. (only raced about 5 times, hardly ever beat on it)
When I drove the car there it was in perfect operational mode, but upon receiving I just happened to have a bad TB, it would pulsate when the car warmed up completely. So Jeff recommended me buying the Erick's TB.
So I regret doing business with IB and would not recommend them to customers that are not there to actually monitor what they do to you vehicles.
Kong

any more questions


Modified by Alpha_GSR at 4:39 PM 4/18/2003


Modified by Alpha_GSR at 4:40 PM 4/18/2003

 

I remember your post about going to dsr.

i am sure if you started raising some hell with IB you might get some things fixed.

I am sure they probably want to get the situation fixed so they dont have you going about spreading what happended to you.

 

Damn, that sucks. I would never go to IB. I don't think I even want to call them and ask them about how they build their motors now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Alpha_GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My bad, I don't have time to check up all the time bro. But I'll explain if you'll just be patient.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry to jump on ya like that, I just get sick and tired of people slinging insults without stories behind them. You have a story and I feel bad for you man. That really sucks, and I hope things work out for you in the end.

 

Well that's the thing, I don't feel like I should have to start to raise hell just to get what I want. I'm in the car business and would take care of my customers like no tomorrow.
After that dealing I just said to myself that their business was the very least crappy, service from Jeff sucked ***. When I went to go pick up my car, basically I was just a number to them. And that's with a seven thousand dollar plus motor.
BTW, I only made 205/148 with that motor. Not very impressive. Jeff's comment was, "we didn't even expect it to push over 200." If he would've said that in the beginning, I would've never done business with them.
Also, the cams are supposed to be Skunk2 Stage 1's. My current setup up is:
Stock USDM ITR block
Portflow Head P&P (retainers, springs, racing valves)
Skunk2 S1, S2 camgears and IM w/ hondata gasket
Ported TB
JG Edelbrock IB Modified header, Carsound Cat, 2.5 piping to 5zigen axleback
MSD ignition
Comptech Icebox
98' JDM ITR tranny
All this only pushing 188/131. Tuned by Lawrence of course, no more Jeff for me!!
Some people are saying this is low for what I have, and I think indeed it is.
Makes me and some other people wonder if I even have Skunk cams. I remember Jeff being big on ITR cams.
Oh yeah, when removing my head off the block, the ARP studs weren't even torqued properly. They came off relatively easy, I going to venture a guess of only 40-50lbs only!! My mechanic was shocked.
Kong

In the end, I learned that nothing's better than doing it yourself, or atleast as much as you can. And never believe in the hype on such as Jeff can impose. I believe in bad karma, and what goes around comes around buddy.

 

You should posted this as soon as it happened man, maybe you could save some people from dealing with **** like that. I never thought of IB as an option for me anyway, I don't trust anyone with my car and I don't like the idea of having forged pistons and aftermarket rods in my daily driven car. Never trust a shop, if they didn't **** you over it's probably cuz u haven’t been there enough.

 

Wow, my whole perspective changed. To think back in the day I wanted to drive down there and actually leave my car there also.

 

That really sucks, if it's true. You definitely have a strong case. Personally had my car dynoed there twice, and bought a set of CTR pistons from them. No problems, but that does not mean that everybody has been treated fairly. A business can treat many customers well, but screw a few. Sometimes a customer will have unrealistic expectations, and will talk a lot of sh1$ on the internet (and everywhere else) with no legitimate complaint. I am really curious to see what Jeff might have to say about this one...

 

I called jeff up a couple of times about doing my motor for me,he always gave me good info and helped with my setup.After awhile he didnt respond to my PM's or emails so i just decided to give up and take up another route.I know he is very busy so i didnt sweet it.So far i give them a .Jeff is a member of this board so lets see what he says about all of this.

 

Yes, I want to see Jeff respond to this. I have e-mails from him to back me up. Also, if any of you guys know Tomo, just ask him. I'm pretty sure he remembers me.
And yes, Jeff is only helpful when he thinks you're going to drop a load of money into him. After you've dropped it or it looks as if you're not, then it's different.
Oh yeah, I would've posted it immediately, but I didn't find out about the compression until summer and about the ECU until a few months later. I did however contact him immediately. Still without no prevail.
Kong


Modified by Alpha_GSR at 11:43 PM 4/20/2003

 

I don't think I could do business with ImportBuilders, specially if Jeff works on my engine. He already hates my political views, and let's not forget about his religious thread. I could see it now, "who Noe Kozz? Suuuure I'll take care of you".........few days later, Kaboom!!! lol


Just kidding man, we have different views, but we're both human.

 

I was planning on doing some business with them this summer, Im so glad I read this. I'll take my money elsewhere.

 

I am going to clear up all your errors in your claims. Which are all.

#1 You were not my customer. You were another companies customer. I should have never even talked to you, becuase you didn't pay me anything. You paid another shop. Another shop paid us for the engine and the tuning. Not you.

#2 On my web site, it CLEARLY says the expected horsepower of the package 2. Why would you expect more than 195 WHP? Thats all we claim. You got 206 WHP. Thats 11 more than promised!

#3 YOu did not place this order with me, the shop you bought it from did. And they had instructed us to build an LS/VTEC. Clear as day. You shouldn't be mad at us for this, we just did what was on the order. Tomo just wrote it down as a couresy for you, I was not even here when it got dropped off. And I had already talked to XX person, who ordered it. I think I know what was ordered, because I DESIGNED IT! WE are not going to pull the motor out, change the block, lose 3k becuase the person that ordered it told us to make it LS/VTEC! I apologized for the error on the order, but since you were not OUR customer in the first place, this should have been cleared up with the person you PAID THE MONEY to. It looks like your using me as a scapegoat...I am not responsible.

#3 if LS/VTEC's are not better for making more power, then why is it we all use LS/VTEC's and all the most powerfull motors we have ever built are all LS?VTEC's? And why it is tons of customers get rid of their GSR/Type-R motors to do LS/VTEC's?

#4 You never got back the GSR block? Well, again, I call foul. You didn't pay us the money, you paid another SHOP to do this job for you. They contracted it to us. I did not talk to you at all during this build, I talked to them. I talked to them about that before the deal was ever made, and it was part of the deal. Again, Foul. You can't say that about me because you were NOT my customer. We never talked! How can I know what you want? We never talked! Foul.

#5 You said you pulled back the carpet and saw that you had a CIVIC VX ECU? Are you insane? That ECU is INCOMPATABLE with Hondata! And you had Hondata! How the hell could I "rip you off" and use an ecu that can't even work! LOL man.

#6 AGain WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! You asked for 11.5:1? Ho the hell did you ask me for 11.5:1 when you were NOT my customer and we NEVER talked until your motor was done! That is a joke man! YOu should have been honest and said "I asked the company I gave the money for 11.5:1" And they did not tell us that, Package 2 is 12.5:1 standard, and that is what that company asked for. WE did nothing wrong!

#7 You forget to tell all these kind people about how you told me you had been detonating on the motor for a while and hurt the motor from detonatiing. Just so you know, Detonation causes your motor to have problems, like blown head gaskets...etc...I think you detonated so much, you caused the head gasket to blow, which forced so much pressure on the head, that you got that leak. This explains why the head bolts were around 50 pounds. The head being forced up from excessive detonation explains that.

I don't understand why your so mad! You had like power steering, a catalytic converter on and your car made 11 more WHP than the minimum I advertise for! Thats a good thing! You called me and e-mailed me telling me how happy you were with the car and how great it ran!

Then, now, like over a year later you badmouth me. Remember, you were not my customer, we never communicated, and the person who you paid the money did all the communicating with me. I designed your motor, so I know what went inside it when Jerry built it. I don't put different parts in that was ordered, I just do what the guy who paid me the money to do the job told me. And that was not you.

[B]Sorry you were not happy. The motor was strong, but you can't blame us for detonating all ove

 

both of my IB motors run fine.

 

If you've never written to me then what is this???? This is the e-mail from Jeff to me.

From :
"Import Builders" &lt;importbuilders@importbuilders.com&gt;

To :
"Kong Vang" &lt;alpha_kong@hotmail.com&gt;

Subject :
Re:

Date :
Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:30:01 -0800

Reply Reply All Forward Delete Put in Folder...InboxSent MessagesDraftsTrash Can Printer Friendly Version

ok, here you go:

Je pistons, Eagle rods, Sleeved block, 84 MM, head gasket, oil pump, new
bearings, balanced, polished crank/pistons/rods, ARP head bolts, Skunk 2
Type 1 cams, Skunk 2 cam gears, Ported and polished head, COmplete
valvetrain w/Ti retainers, port match TB, IM, CM light flywheel, DC JDM 4-1
header, ACT high stress clutch plate only, RC 310 injectors
AND

HONDATA STAGE 2, installed, and tuned.

$7500.

So there you have it...

A deal for you. I am building that exact motor right now. Customers buy
that from me quite often, its a VERY good motor for mid range power...you
don't need to rev high at all...stock rev limiter for GSR is even ok...but I
rec. 8500.

Have a nice day Kong.

Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kong Vang" &lt;alpha_kong@hotmail.com&gt;
To: &lt;sales@importbuilders.com&gt;
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:57 PM


&gt; Jeff,
&gt; Thanks for responding.
&gt; The price is a little too high for me. Honestly, my budget is only
&gt; $7000-$7500. I just bought the car two months ago, and didn't know it was
&gt; burning oil.
&gt; I know that your work is probably the best out there, and I respect that,
so
&gt; I couldn't really ask for better pricing.
&gt; However, the motor I wanna build for now will consist of what I will list:
&gt; Je pistons,eagle rods, arp head bolts, bearings, head gasket, all misc.
&gt; gaskets and seals, balanced and blueprinted, resleeved to 84.5,
port&polish,
&gt; Skunk2 cams, Complete valve-train, Skunk2 camgears, port-match TB& IM,
FPR,
&gt; water pump and oil pump, and a Comptech Icebox.
&gt; I know that your suggestions were of the ultimate motor, but as a
struggling
&gt; college student, I really can't afford that price. I would love to have
the
&gt; Hondata unit as well, but I must look as necessities first. Also, I
&gt; currently have a DC 4-2-1 header that will do until I have the funds for a
&gt; JDM-style header. To be honest, I don't drag race. I just want a very
&gt; strong motor.
&gt;
&gt; Questions:
&gt; What are the differences between the Stage I and Stage II Skunk Cams?
Which
&gt; ones are the more streetable?(more midrange and not having to rev to 9.5)
&gt; Are the new fuel injectors necessary?
&gt;
&gt; I just want to have most of my motor built right now, mainly to get rid of
&gt; its consumption of oil. All bolt-ons and smaller add-ons will come later
&gt; on. Thanks.
&gt;
&gt; Kong
&gt;
&gt; __________________________________________________ _______________
&gt; Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
&gt; http://www.hotmail.com
&gt;


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Also, no the shop that went with me to do the motor did not specify an LS/VTEC. The guy is my friend and just contacted Jeff that we were going to be doing the motor with him. When we got there at IB, Tomo pulled out an invoice already written out for a Complete GSR build!! Tomo made a copy of it for me!! Also, when I picked it up, Jeff had said we wanted an LS/VTEC and said my friend had said that, so me and Jeff immediately phoned him to ask him if that's what he had said and even he said straight out that we did not even mention LS/VTEC. So I till this day I don't know where you got LS/VTEC from bro. Jeff, I remember you quoting "I'm not going to pull that $3000 block out. It's going to be just as reliable and make more power."
If you want to call the shop it's located in Fresno, Ca named Evol Motorsports. He'll confirm that Jeff is wrong. Also, about the detonating, my car ran extremely rich not even being close to being lean. Lawrence tried numerous runs to get it to run good, but only managed to get it to not detonate at RPMs 3-4k and over. You knew this was my daily driver and Lawrence simply stated that he coudln't believe the compression I was running on the block and that it was too high. And yes, this tuning was done after the install of the 68mm TB.
Well, you had my block the last time I seen it, so what does my friend have anything to do with it???? I contacted you for it, and you said you didn't keep customers belongings there. So what did you do with it???
Oh yeah about the ECU, let me go get the code off of that. Are you saying that it isn't from you. I also have e-mails from you saying that it is bro!!! Here's the code off of the ECU, I might have been mistaken about the VX, but here it is 37820-P07-L02. It even has IB written on it.