I have a completely built LS motor (8.1:1 compress) that im soon boosting.....and i figure with everything else upgraded that i better to something about sleves.....and my funds ran out quick with the build so getting it sleeved is not out of the question. I baught a block guard and was wondering what are some ways to install this correctly.....never dealt with cylinders so any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

Ok just get it sleeved... well worth it.


Modified by JDM_Ej at 6:23 PM 1/2/2006

 

^^That's probably the worst advice I've ever heard. It should NOT require pressing in unless there is a fitment issue.

The best way to install it is to drop it in slightly lower than the deck height and weld it at several different points.

However, there are still two schools of thought on blockguards. Some people say the sleeves should be touching the inside of the guard, some say there should be a small gap (like 1/16") between the sleeves and the guard to allow the sleeves to slightly flex without warping the block.

But anyway, I would just stick with stock sleeves. Block guards are a joke.

 

best thing to do is...... sell it on ebay, and NO i am not being a smartass. take HTs words of wisdom all over 40 other threads JUST like this

 

The best way to install it is to drop it in slightly lower than the deck height and weld it at several different points.

you should never weld in a block Guard it should be fitted to the block just bellow the deck welding is not the right way

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The best way to install it is to drop it in slightly lower than the deck height and weld it at several different points.

you should never weld in a block Guard it should be fitted to the block just bellow the deck welding is not the right way </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well that's certainly an opinion...

Most people who choose to install them with the sleeve gap also weld them in so they don't sink.

But if you prefer to "hammer" it in and do a re-bore/hone, then you wouldn't have to worry about welding it or having it sink.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EnzoSpeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well that's certainly an opinion...

Most people who choose to install them with the sleeve gap also weld them in so they don't sink.

But if you prefer to "hammer" it in and do a re-bore/hone, then you wouldn't have to worry about welding it or having it sink.</TD></TR></TABLE>

we make block guards and you should never hammer it in or weld it in they should be fit to your block also if you weld in a block guard you will still have to re- bore/hone the block because the heat will make it go out of round and i never said to hammer it in i said to fit it to your block and i always sagest you re bore/hone your block after you install one

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

we make block guards and you should never hammer it in or weld it in they should be fit to your block also if you weld in a block guard you will still have to re- bore/hone the block because the heat will make it go out of round and i never said to hammer it in i said to fit it to your block and i always sagest you re bore/hone your block after you install one </TD></TR></TABLE>


First of all, if you don't hammer/press it in, then it will be a loose fit and will need to be welded. If you don't do either, it will sink and defeat it's purpose.

Second, when they are welded in, it's only spaced out spot welds. It won't cause out of round sleeves.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EnzoSpeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


First of all, if you don't hammer/press it in, then it will be a loose fit and will need to be welded. If you don't do either, it will sink and defeat it's purpose.

Second, when they are welded in, it's only spaced out spot welds. It won't cause out of round sleeves.</TD></TR></TABLE>

so we make them but your going to tell me how to install them that's a good one i never said not to press it in i said not to hammer it in and if you fit it to the block it will not be loose when a block guard is installed right you always have to re hone the block

 

well guys i really appreciate all of your help.....and i took someone's advice and took it to a local machine shop and they simply told me it was un necessary to put in a block guard unless i was running over 20psi........i am not so ill sell the block guard to someone and set my high boost at 15psi


PS my block guard is Golden Eagle, LoL

if anyone wants to buy ill sell it for really cheap.

 

Quick question. When a block guard is in place, and it is up against the cylinders.. heat will cause it to expand. With the block guard expanding, won't it squeeze the cylinders and make for additional stress?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

so we make them but your going to tell me how to install them that's a good one </TD></TR></TABLE>


Oh wow, you can push a button on a CNC machine and spit out a metal plate. Why, you must know everything about thermodynamics.

There always seem to be GE peons running around on h-t. It doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. I'd rather trust an engineer, like myself.

And the point is moot anyway. Block guards are a joke. You can do 20psi easy without a guard.

 

look its just like this the guy has a golden eagle block guard and wants to know how to put it in and as for your ge peons remark our records speak for them self's

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EnzoSpeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Oh wow, you can push a button on a CNC machine and spit out a metal plate. Why, you must know everything about thermodynamics.

There always seem to be GE peons running around on h-t. It doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. I'd rather trust an engineer, like myself.

And the point is moot anyway. Block guards are a joke. You can do 20psi easy without a guard.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

UPDATE: i skipped the block guard......ran 15psi and put out 339whp.....this is on a dyna pack 3000 (sp) so the readings my be a couple HP high.....but the tuner said that the stock sleves could hold up to 23psi....but he has seen them go at 10psi. So only time will tell how long it will last. hopefully a while. Again thanks for all the info

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EnzoSpeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Oh wow, you can push a button on a CNC machine and spit out a metal plate. Why, you must know everything about thermodynamics.

There always seem to be GE peons running around on h-t. It doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. I'd rather trust an engineer, like myself.

And the point is moot anyway. Block guards are a joke. You can do 20psi easy without a guard.</TD></TR></TABLE>

How does anyone know that you are an engineer? You should always listen to the manufaturer of the product that you are installing. Golden Eagle has obviously designed their block gaurd to be pressed in. Like he said, even when pressing them in you have to bore and hone the block to make sure that the cylinders are straight.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The best way to install it is to drop it in slightly lower than the deck height and weld it at several different points.

you should never weld in a block Guard it should be fitted to the block just bellow the deck welding is not the right way </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you welded them in even at only a few points, that would totally distort the cylinders. Assuming that you are going to Tig it in place the heat to get the two surfaces to weld would be quite a bit. For all the peple reading this I would never weld a block gaurd in, and if you choose to use one make sure that the cylinders are straight and true before assembling the motor.

 

When we designed the blockguard, we looked at EVERY option available and decided that there are a few things that you should NEVER do when installing a blockguard. Here they are:

When installing a blockguard, NEVER:
1. Weld it in. This will cause the bore to distort extremely bad. This also cause the heat treat of the block casting to loose some of it's integrity causing weak spots that can burst. Engine block aluminum is heat treated to withstand the pressures of a combustion engine. Anytime you weld on it, you cause that portion of the aluminum to anneal which makes it very soft which in turn will cause the block to fail sooner, particularly in those welded areas. The only way to do this correctly is to re-heat treat the block after welding, but then that too can cause MAJOR casting distortion which can lean to main tunnel mis-alignment, bore center shifting among other things, so in essence, welding in a blockguard is NEVER a good idea!

2. Never hammer in a blockguard. All block castings are different, plain and simple. A blockguard should be " massaged " so that it is a snug fit into the water jacket, without major forcing. The best way is to use a sanding block and mark the areas that need some material removal. When the blockguard seems like it is going to fit in snug, with only minor but equal force, then it can be installed. No worry about the blockguard sinking, it was designed with a 45 deg. chamfer on it to ensure that it cannot go below the recommended depth, which should be approx. 3/8 below the deck surface so that stock water flow to the head is retained and no cooling issues will arise due to the blockguard installation.

ALL BLOCKS SHOULD BE RE-HONED AFTER THE BLOCKGUARD HAS BEEN INSTALLED, REGARDLESS OF MANUFACTURER!!! Anytime you are going to apply foreign pressure to and existing cylinder wall, there is the distinct possibility that the cylinder will do out of round due to that pressure. Re-honing the block after blockguard install will ensure a round bore and good ring seat and seal.

I hope this clears up some information here about blockguards, or the GE blockguard at least! And just to clarify, I am an engineer / engine builder with a background in mechanical properties and structural design, in case anyone was wondering

 

when you weld the blockguard, it may not be out of round to the eye, but as we all know, tolerances are measured far, far smaller than "by the eye". so it may not appear to be distorted, but even as a supposed engineer, you should know that when metal is heated extremely quickly, its shape can distort rather rapidly, even though the distortion caused may be microscopic. and even then, microscopic distortion can cause chaos when you have a piston moving at 8,000 rpm inside that "microscopically distorted" cylinder.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EnzoSpeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> some say there should be a small gap (like 1/16") between the sleeves and the guard to allow the sleeves to slightly flex without warping the block.</TD></TR></TABLE>


When you choose this method, you need a way to hold the guard in. If you don't weld it, it will sink. But welding it won't be an issue because the sleeves can't warp if they aren't touching the guard.

Even if you DON'T choose the gapped method, you can still weld them in as insurance against sinkage (apparently GE's are better though). All you need is 2 - 4 quick tacks to secure the guard. A few tacks will not "severely warp" anything. And since this method already requires you to force the guard in, you'll have to re-check the bores anyway.

 

i always thought block guards were lightly tapped into a machined counterbore where they couldnt sink or move at all.