hcaulfield57

Hi all,

My car is a 93' Civic DX hatchback. Last Saturday I installed my Koni/GC setup with extended top-hats. Spring rates are 380F/300R. The handling is simply fantastic, I can't really fault it in any way - very happy with it.

But, the first thing I noticed is that the steering feel is quite vague (at least compared to before the car was lowered). I haven't gotten an alignment yet, but I was hoping for some opinions before I spend my time and money getting an alignment (I'm trying to avoid doing it twice if it doesn't fix anything). There's no noticeable play in the steering (rebuilt manual rack and adjusted) and all bushings / ball-joints on the front end of the car are brand new OEM. The car hasn't been excessively lowered, about two finger gap on the front wheels with no tucking, I can actually measure if it helps. My goal for the car is practical and good handling. I'm on 175/70r13 all-seasons, will likely be buying 195/50r15 summer tires soon. Clearly the alignment is off, there's noticeable wear on the inside edge of the front tires. I'm planning on using the car for autocross and daily driver and was planning on 1/16" total toe-out on the front, but if that leads to poor steering feel I may change my mind?

So my question: will lowering these cars hurt steering feel, or do I just have a bad alignment and should get that done and stop worrying about it? Should I steer away from toe-out and just go with zero toe?

Thanks!

Tyson

You have a bad alignment because it changes when you lower the car.

You need to get it aligned after changing springs.

Toe out just a 1/16 total front, zero or in at the rear. This is for performance and even tire wear.

Toe in at front is asking for more tire wear and poor handling.

hcaulfield57

@Tyson: Thanks for the response, sorry I know stupid question. I just wanted to make sure my vague steering was not the result of purely being lowered rather than a side effect of alignment change from lowering. This is my first Honda, so I didn't know what to expect. The steering is fine aside from being a bit vague and floaty. Since I'm satisfied with the ride height, I'll re-clock the bushings and get an alignment.

KoRn_vIRuZ

It's hard to get very good steering feel from tires with such tall sidewalls. They flex too much. Maybe lowering made it more noticeable because you reduced the slop on the rest of the system. But your alignment was definitely affected. The front suspension toes out as it is lowered.

hcaulfield57

Yea, I know the tires are probably not the strong point, but 15x7 wheels with decent tires are on the way. But the steering feel was better before lowering. It is possible I didn't notice it however due to the insane body roll I had before though.

What is the point where lowering the car starts to diminish handling? Right now I get no scraping, rubbing or bottoming-out - most people probably wouldn't even consider this lowered. But it is lower, my understanding is some lowering is okay on these cars, but it's hard to sort through the threads with people talking about stanced cars vs handling. I don't care about looks - just handling. I don't notice any bad handling problems, but I may not be the most adept in this field. I want to get the height correct so I don't have to end up wasting time with another alignment in the future.

KoRn_vIRuZ

There is no perfect height. It's a trade off. As long as you're not running out of travel and haven't screwed up the suspension geometry you should be good.

Tyson

Why didn't you just clock the bushings the first and every time? It's really not an option.

You just need to tighten the bolts you loosened during installation under load. That's it. It's easier to put things back together that way. I don't know why you wouldn't.

hcaulfield57

I was under the impression you had to re-clock EVERY bushing on the car. Everything I took off for the installation was torqued with the car on the ground.

hcaulfield57

I assume at the very least, I shouldn't test my luck anymore and re-clock other bushings though?

Tyson

You don't have to reclock every bushings. It's helpful, but the relative minor change in ride, vs tightening them in full drop position, is not going to tear the bushings.

So if that's all you meant then it's ok.

hcaulfield57

That's what I meant. Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

hcaulfield57

Installed a 21mm front swaybar this evening (also reclocked front bushings). Steering feel is dramatically improved, I will post back after my alignment. I still haven't installed my rear swaybar, so the car understeers like a pig, but should be rectified soon!