Eran

iTrader: (1)

For the longest time, I had a mis-diagnosed "axle" problem from an accident with my car about three years ago. It caused my alignment to be out of spec all the time (especially front right toe + caster). It also caused weird knocking and clunking when I would get almost to a stop, or right after accelerating from a stop. I finally got someone who knew what they were talking about to look at it, and it turns out my front right LCA was bent. Without seeing it next to a fresh one, it was hard to even tell what the problem was. Here are the results after replacing it. The rear was also really out of whack from the other day when I installed a ST rear swaybar, and had to remove the shocks, and rebolt everything up.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honda : Civic : 1996-2000

<u>Front : Left</u>
Camber: Before (<FONT COLOR="green">-0.4°</FONT>) ; Actual (<FONT COLOR="green">-0.4°</FONT>)
Caster: Before (<FONT COLOR="green">+1.8°</FONT>) ; Actual ([color]+1.8°[/color])
Toe: Before (<FONT COLOR="green">+0.04°</FONT>) ; Actual (<FONT COLOR="green">+0.07°</FONT>)
SAI: Before (+11.2°) ; Actual (+11.2°)
Inc. Angle: Before (+10.8°) ; Actual (+10.8°)

<u>Front : Right</u>
Camber: Before (<FONT COLOR="green">-0.5°</FONT>) ; Actual (<FONT COLOR="green">-0.5°</FONT>)
Caster: Before (<FONT COLOR="green">+1.0°</FONT>) ; Actual (<FONT COLOR="green">+1.0°</FONT>)
Toe: Before (<FONT COLOR="red">+0.21°</FONT>) ; Actual (<FONT COLOR="green">+0.06°</FONT>)
SAI: Before (+11.0°) ; Actual (+11.0°)
Inc. Angle: Before (+10.6°) ; Actual (+10.6°)

<u>Front</u>
Cross Camber: Before (+0.1°) ; Actual (+0.1°)
Cross Caster: Before (+0.8°) ; Actual (+0.8°)
Cross SAI: Before (+0.2°) ; Actual (+0.1°)
Total Toe: Before (<FONT COLOR="red">+0.24°</FONT>) ; Actual (<FONT COLOR="green">+0.13°</FONT>)

<u>Rear : Left</u>
Camber: Before (<FONT COLOR="red">-2.2°</FONT>) ; Actual (<FONT COLOR="red">-2.2°</FONT>)
Toe: Before (<FONT COLOR="red">+0.22°</FONT>) ; Actual (<FONT COLOR="green">+0.07°</FONT>)

<u>Rear : Right</u>
Camber: Before (<FONT COLOR="red">-2.1°</FONT>) ; Actual (<FONT COLOR="red">-2.0°</FONT>)
Toe: Before (<FONT COLOR="red">-0.06°</FONT>) ; Actual (<FONT COLOR="green">+0.09°</FONT>)

<u>Rear</u>
Cross Camber: Before (+0.0°) ; Actual (-0.2°)
Total Toe: Before (<FONT COLOR="green">+0.16°</FONT>) ; Actual (<FONT COLOR="green">+0.16°</FONT>)
Thrust: Before (+0.14°) ; Actual (-0.01°)</TD></TR></TABLE>

So to anyone who's had results similar to mine, ie having one side have odd caster/toe and weird noises ... look at your front LCA's.

Satoonxtreme

-2.2 for the rear camber?! is that the actual factory spec?

Eran

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Satoonxtreme &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">-2.2 for the rear camber?! is that the actual factory spec?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not factory, but my cross-camber is within spec, so there's no adverse wear. I could fix it, but I'd rather have it cambered in a little for handling purposes. Look at a BMW rolling down the road some time, and check out their rear camber. It's -3.0 at least.

Satoonxtreme

so, the actual is what you are driving rightnow? how did you like it I'm thinking of adjusting mine like yours

Eran

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Satoonxtreme &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so, the actual is what you are driving rightnow? how did you like it I'm thinking of adjusting mine like yours </TD></TR></TABLE>

My car handles very well.

Tokico Illumina 5-Way Shocks (Set to 4 front ; 3 rear)
H&R Sport Springs (330F/280R Progressive)
Suspension Techniques 24mm Front Swaybar
Suspension Techniques 19mm Rear Swaybar
ASR Rear Subframe Brace
OEM Integra GSR Front Strut Bar
A shitty rear strut bar
Fuzion ZRi (195/50/R15)

743power

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eran &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Look at a BMW rolling down the road some time, and check out their rear camber. It's -3.0 at least.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yea, because it is RWD. They have to account for all the idiots driving their bimmers around off ramps too fast and extra negative camber in the rear is an easy way to make the rear stick more in turns. . .

Tyson

comparing honda to bmw suspension is apples and oranges.

but RWD, or mac strut regardless. camber doesnt eat tires. toe does.

Eran

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 743power &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">extra negative camber in the rear is an easy way to make the rear stick more in turns. . .</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly why I never corrected it. Keep the cross camber even and the toe in check, and it's free sticky.

allricedout

Eran...how did they adjust youre toe in the back cuz i got a 4 wheel alignment and my toe was

20 degrees total before
24 degrees total after

also my camber in the back is

-1.0 left rear
-2.0 right rear, however my rear LCA bushings are shot... could that cause the uneveness?

allricedout

bump

Heretic:Si

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eran &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Exactly why I never corrected it. Keep the cross camber even and the toe in check, and it's free sticky.</TD></TR></TABLE>

rear negative camber helps rear wheel drive cars to not oversteer, just makes your honda more prone to understeer...

Eran

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Heretic:Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

rear negative camber helps rear wheel drive cars to not oversteer, just makes your honda more prone to understeer... </TD></TR></TABLE>

And right now I'm running a heavy rear bias on suspension. No front swaybar, and a 19mm rear swaybar. Less oversteer is a good thing.

allricedout

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allricedout &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Eran...how did they adjust youre toe in the back cuz i got a 4 wheel alignment and my toe was

20 degrees total before
24 degrees total after

also my camber in the back is

-1.0 left rear
-2.0 right rear, however my rear LCA bushings are shot... could that cause the uneveness?</TD></TR></TABLE>

bump

Eran

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allricedout &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

bump</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your rear toe is 24 degrees total?

Holy ****, something is broken back there. Take it to a different alignment shop and ask them to look under there, and bring your previous results. I've never heard of anything being that out of toe. You must go through tires every month.

allricedout

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eran &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your rear toe is 24 degrees total?

Holy ****, something is broken back there. Take it to a different alignment shop and ask them to look under there, and bring your previous results. I've never heard of anything being that out of toe. You must go through tires every month.</TD></TR></TABLE>

well i just lowered my car 3 days ago and havent driven it other than going to the alignment shop.

i told them to set it to zero but they said they couldnt and it wasnt adjustable or something.

my LCA bushings are reaaaly bad though and theres a lot of slack.... could that cause the problem?

im thinking i might take it to another shop and have them take a look at it but it just gets expensive.

also, what i didnt understand was how my toe in the back actually got worse by 4 degrees after they aligned it. wtf?

Eran

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, slack is going to give you toe issues. I'd try and get a refund for that alignment, replace your LCA's, and go get another alignment at a different place. I have Lifetime Alignment at Firestone, cost me $149, which is 2 alignments + $10. I've gotten about 50 alignments over the course me owning the car, through regular checkups to changing suspension parts.

allricedout

im going to get some new oem LCA then ill see how how specs are lookin, thanks for the help.