RR98ITR

I am so tired. My subconcious mind got mixed up about the daylight saving thing and so I've been going to sleep later and getting up earlier the last few days.

In my last report I mentioned that my right front upper ball joint carrier came loose, and that I roughed it back into my best guess as to where it should be, and then turned my best laps ever. I needed to do an alignment for that reason, and intended to reduce negative camber front and rear in response to the tire temps I took thinking that it would benefit me in event of rain as a plus. I didn't go to my softer Bilstein setup though.

Here's what I had:

Left Front -4 Right Front -2.8
Left Rear -2 Right Rear -1.6

Front toe out was just under 1/2 inch total! Seemed like alot to me anyway.

The result of this was super fast lap times, feathered inner edges on the fronts, excellent turn in, NO instability under braking, and grip that I could barely believe thru T7.

I will never bother with a store bought alignment again. My Smart Camber gauge, Toe Bar, flat enough shop floor, and string will definitely be more than good enough. I guess I needed to drive a car that was really out of whack to believe those friends of mine who had long told me this.

So I reset the fronts to -2.8, the rears to -1.6, and front toe out to 1/4 inch total. For some reason I can't explain I didn't check the rear toe (it doesn't change when you change the rear camber). I expect that the rear toe, when I get around to checking it, will be out of spec too. The lesson here is predictable - these cars shouldn't be hammered mercilessly over steep curbing unless you're going to keep after your alignment with the same frequency you keep after your lug nut torque.

The track today was cold in the morning. I drove as hard as I could (as the cold tires and cold green track would allow) in the first 15 minute session and when I came in the inside rear was no warmer than my hand. It got better mid day, and then cooled in the evening. It never rained and I was on R3S03's all day.

I have mentioned that I was planning on going back to a set of tires being four tires instead of six. Today I changed my mind. I got a puncture somewhere between my pit and lap-2 of one of my sessions. ...Never mind..... I'd swear that later I could see a shiny tek screw out on the track just offline - but how it (if it really existed) put a hole in my tire and then escaped is beyond me. It took me a couple of corners to be sure that it was more than just a cold tire. I was lucky it was as fast a leak as it was or I might have tried a little harder to drive thru the problem.

I had a full time student in an ITR. He recently escaped from the rice/drag culture and is a really good guy. He made alot of progress thru the day - but he lacks the sense of feel at this point. He was unaware of my car sliding/drifting, and he was unable to sense what his tires were doing. Once he took a set of fronts that were already overloaded from overcooking the entry, and dumped full throttle on them in mid corner. I actually yelled at him for that one. His car is Jun'ized, but it didn't seem to have as much punch as the other one I've ridden in. We were out together in the last session, and in the brief time we were together his car didn't appear noticably faster than mine. He's at an early stage of this commitment/addiction, and was until today mostly unguided. I told him in strong terms to buy the Skip Barber book and really study the stuff on contact patch and line. I told him that to progress he was going to have to strip away the romance/adrenaline and develop a machine like approach to controlling the car, and only after he successfully does that can he let that other stuff creep back in. I know that's kind of extreme, but this guy needed structure. He wasn't shifting gears with any consistency from lap to lap when we started the day for instance. I told him that a successful lap was essentially a plan to execute - it has operations and specific points that you must carry them out at. We made the most rapid progress when I went into barking out commands mode.

Another interesting new guy was a transplant from California. He was in an Integra sedan on Toyo's. He liked to drive in a sort of drift mode. When I first came up on him I was wondering if what I saw was intentional. It really looked like it for a corner or two and then he went off. Later he told me he likes to corner at a 45 degree angle to the line of the track - seriously. So we went out together and he watched some of my lines before I took off. He later said that my technique was faster - but he enjoys driving in his style. Fair enough. He's a good guy, and seems very intelligent despite this one quirk. I'm looking forward to having him around.

And for the first time ever, I made a Porsche 911 struggle to get me before the end of a passing zone because I didn't back off. It figures the guy would turn out to be really nice. I think the other 911 behind him reported me for prickish behavior for making the pass so hard (more irony huh?), so I went and talked to him and it was all cool. He really salvaged the next corner well considering I had totally denied him the good line. I really shouldn't have done that. It's not like I did it with real malice, but I'm pretty sure my subconcious was in payback mode.

I didn't take any times or get any temperatures. The last session was my best. I didn't feel that I was driving all that well for most of the day. I think I was frustrated that I wasn't able to get to speed under the fall conditions. I talked to a serious racer friend who runs every National, Regional, Test, Club, etc, and I asked him if on an off day he finds himself for instance turning a lap and then suddenly remembering that you're not doing something that you learned was good/fast the last time you drove. He said: "Oh-yeah". It was that kind of day. Part of it is the poor traction thing. You come to the track with your last program essentially, and you try to drive it. The ABS is chattering because your braking points are too late under these new conditions, so you blow the corner and your exit is pathetic. You work hard to adapt, but the target speed is the last thing you can give up, so the day is a struggle. BUT IT WAS STILL GOOD...REALLY GOOD.

Scott, who is glad to write a less contentious post this time.....




[Modified by RR98ITR, 7:19 PM 10/28/2001]

johng

Quality reading....as usual. I'm still upset that I had to miss it though. I'm sooo craving the crack right now. Did I say crack....I meant track. Good greif

dn

45deg was a bit of an exageration. remember not to believe everything you hear at the track... especially when someone tells you that they can take a corner by only lifting or tapping the brake. sometimes they just want to know if it can be done and they'd rather send you out full of confidnece rather than doubtfully try it out themselves.

thill is a bit of a different story as far as which end of the car to steer with is concerned. for most of the early/geometric apex turns there i can get away with letting the back end point the nose and slide one tire up through the berm/dirt. its all about carrying speed as the rythm sections are short so it doesnt require as much foresight or consideration for balance when laying out a 'plan'. as far as faster or not... well if anything, every passenger ive taken comes away with a grin on their face (one guy turned green but ill call him the exception).

im still not convinced it is the 'wrong' way to do things, but i did find out something about myself that i never knew before: i just cant drive the other way anymore. i tried it and i fear there may be a bit of an unlearning process if it is proven to be slower


david


[Modified by dn, 11:10 PM 10/28/2001]


[Modified by dn, 11:14 PM 10/28/2001]

RR98ITR

David - HI!

Yeah, I've heard that. Somebody once told Glen K that he could go into Talladega at BW flat out - so he set aside whatever doubts he had and just did it. Turns out there was some error in communication. Everything worked out in the end, and Glen really needed to vacuum his car anyway.

So.....you're on of those guys huh..........

Here's something I didn't mention: David runs (if I can believe what he told me ) 400/400 with 40psi F&R. When he lost the car he had overpressure in that side front making the car looser than he wanted/expected. He described his technique as go in hot with trailing brake. I had a pretty good view and he could really bring the rear around good. Now I've never tried to do what he does but the experience I have that bears on it makes me wonder how you get the fronts to cooperate with this. He said it, I saw it, but I can't figure out how it happens. Maybe you'll let me have one of those fun rides next time?

Scott, who is happy to know David...but wouldn't want him instructing Adam just yet ...

Oh-yeah, it goes without saying that David possesses in great amounts the feel for what's going on at the contact patches that Adam has to develop. Seriously - dn is very comfortable near the top of the tire curve.....

Andrew Sites

You're right, there is never a "wrong" way. But rather an "optimal" way.

dn

scott with words like those, people are going to wrongly assume that i can keep up with you... and i hope you were pulling my leg when you wrote that it was an off day, otherise im going to have to find a different region to play in

RR98ITR

David,

No, I really wasn't pulling your leg, that's your bag. I feel kind of dumb and gullible about buying your 45 degree story - I guess I'm lucky you weren't trying to sell me a header that day. But in my defense I must point out that that was the approximate attitude of your car before you went off. And to think, I was trying to see things thru a clearer visor. This has set me back days.

Don't joke about moving, you're a great addition to the local scene.

About the off day. It really was. I tried to describe the days potential vs the psychology of expectation above, and I'm trying to be truthful and accurate. I can only guess at numbers but I figure I was 2, maybe up to 5, tenths off my last days times. Early in the morning there was just no way the track would give it up, and then I had to learn that I don't like having the hum of the Nady intercom annoying me while I try to provide a useful monologue, and try to drive reasonably instructive but fast laps (I'm sorry I said that Derrick Bell sucked). Then the puncture destroyed a potentially good session. That next to the last session when I was ahead of you was pretty good but I was still working on rough edges. And in the last session it seemed like the track was back to giving less grip again.

Remember how I was a little sensitive about your claim to having more speed than me thru 7-8-9? That's MY section - and I really wasn't getting what I wanted there. It may have been in the second session that I started working it hard, and I could tell immediately that 7 was skatier at speed than last time. I also had the sensation that the car was bouncing more coming off 7's curb making setup for 8-9 harder. I think this bouncing probably owes alot to driver problems, but I had the sensation that car was sliding on the curbing more and that was increasing the violence of the landing impact. I was having to work about as hard as ever to button the car down for turn in to 9 - the usual problem: can't come off the gas because I'm not done with 8 exit, but it's time to brake for 9. I was into the ABS entering 9 so often that day I felt like a clod. That was so dissappointing because I felt like I'd made so much progress on smoother input at the last track day. I was using all of the exit of 9, but I never had the feeling the speed was high enough.

Scott, who thinks it was good crack...but not great crack....uhm, I mean track...

RR98ITR

I forgot to mention the combined high/low points of the day: coming up on Owen and Adam in their ITR's. I got all happy just seeing those cars - I have the stupidest love thing for the ITR. It almost made me sad to pass them.

Scott, who sometimes looks at racecar websites together with friends on the phone as if we were high school girls...Alright! This ITR thing has gone far enough....look at what's become of you...get a grip will ya.....ack.....

dn

hmm ABS.. i chose to run without when i picked up the current chasis as a learning tool. havent even thought about going back, but maybe i should.. as for the bouncy-ness through 7, i know what you mean and it reminded me how useful running a low spring rate can be. now for 8/9 have you ever considered using the access road and cutting across the concrete patch? i was doing it end of day sat when the track dried up and then i followed you through 8/9 on sunday and noticed you didnt. rest of the day i tried it your way and it felt good, but there were a few times when i came through HOT and like you said, couldnt use the brakes until i was deeper/looser than i like, but this is where the access road comes in. i found that if i come through 7/8 too hot and the car feels loose, the access road provided a bit of a straight so i was able to unclock the wheel just a tad which put me out into the access road, but allowed me to get my braking done.. dont want to over step my bounds as that is YOUR area and it was only my second day there, but this is what i saw. whether you choose to believe me or not, well...

RR98ITR

Ok David....let's just suppose that you're not pulling my leg this time ...and I really appreciate you trying to be more sensitive to my ego when talking about MY favorite section ...

Yes I know that escape road really well, I was out into it pretty sideways early that morning, and brought the car back. I told a friend later that there were times in the past when I'd been in just about as much trouble and chosen to drive off rather than risk paying a higher price a few more feet up the track.

The problem I have with using that as a steady technique there is that cutting back across the patch from out in the escape road makes your turn in earlier than I prefer. If you sit up on the hill and watch club racing you'll see that it's very rare that anybody consistently crosses that white line.

Scott, who likes ABS for reasons of training assistance and economy...but maybe I'd learn sensitivity faster/better if I had to pay for all those tires I otherwise would have flat spotted....

grippgoat

What track are you talking about? It doesn't sound like SIR. Is it PIR?

-Mike

RR98ITR

Wow, that would be something at SIR! Yeah, we're talking about PIR.

Scott, who doesn't even want to think about screwing up Little Indy that bad....