Ok guy's dont flame me on this one but i dont know what else to do. My other car besides my civic is a 90 awd talon and im having a problem with my wastegate creeping on me. It has a 14.2 psi spring and is a hks standard 40mm wastegate. The gate starts creeping around 4700-5000 rpm and i have let it creep up to around 20 psi which is really pushing my 550cc injectors. If you guys could give me some pointers what you think the problem is i would really appreciate it. I just set this car up and just finished the break in miles on the motor. Im really just trying to decide if my problem is the wastegate itself or the palcement of it.

Heres a mod list
Rebuilt Head.
.20 2G pistons.
Polished and shotpeened rods.
Block resurfaced.
Crank knife edged.
Balance shafts removed.
Arp head studs rod bolts and main studs.
20G TD06 turbo.
Evo ported exhaust mani and o2 housing.
Hks wastegate.
Hks Vpc unit.
greddy 550cc injectors.
Atr full 3 inch stainless exhaust.
JDM Galant vr4 tranny.
ACT 2600 clutch.
ACT xact flywheel.
Prothane solid motor mounts.
Walbro 255 fuel pump.
Dsm sport front mount intrecooler all piping is stainless steel.
Tial Blow off valve.
Magnacore wires.

 

Tell me what vacuum source you're using for the wastegate (compressor, pre-throttle body, intake manifold) and gimme a dollar.

 

If you look in the pic 'The Blue hose' that goes to the wastegate and my intercooler piping right after the turbo is where it at.

 

It looks like bad positioning of the WG for one.

Two, you may want to relocate your wastegate vaccum source to after the intercooler.

 

20 psi ain't exactly pushing your 550s as hard as you think...rock on with your bad self.

 

"The blue hose" (your picture doesn't show where your vacuum source goes, just down into the depths of DSM) should be moved to a source after the intercooler or directly from your compressor housing. If you have a clog in your line or a leak in that hose, that's your problem: make sure that thing is tight.

Take your wastegate apart and see if something is jamming it shut or if the valve is stuck closed.

Check your boost gauge to see if it's reading properly.

Buy a bigger wastegate, a boost controller, or a new boost gauge. For your DSM, buy all three.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsrdriver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It looks like bad positioning of the WG for one.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

DEFINITELY! bad location...

good luck with it though...

 

Thanks for some of the info but keep it comin as for the wastegate postion it could only be moved maybe 3/4 of an inch closer toward the collector theres lots of other people that run this setup and claim to not have problems is the only reason i dont want to belive its the postion of the wastegate. But ive heard some people claim that HKS gates suck. Also im gona try to move the vaccum source to the gate to directly off the intake mani because right now it is in the intecooler pipe coming off the turbo right after it 90's down so maybe that's the problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostin Ex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for some of the info but keep it comin as for the wastegate postion it could only be moved maybe 3/4 of an inch closer toward the collector theres lots of other people that run this setup and claim to not have problems is the only reason i dont want to belive its the postion of the wastegate. But ive heard some people claim that HKS gates suck. Also im gona try to move the vaccum source to the gate to directly off the intake mani because right now it is in the intecooler pipe coming off the turbo right after it 90's down so maybe that's the problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The wastegate position isn't the best but will work. I think your problem is all in the vacuum line. Needs to get it source from the intake manifold, period.

Good luck!!

 

Thanks Ladysman Ill source the vaccum line to the intake manifold tommorow and see how that works.

 

does this apply to hondas too? I've always had mine off the compressor?? well it goes through a boost control, but still......... would it be better of the ITM??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ladysman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The wastegate position isn't the best but will work. I think your problem is all in the vacuum line. Needs to get it source from the intake manifold, period.

Good luck!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

TiAL says that for the wastegate you should use a vacuum source BEFORE the throttle plate.

 

Spoolin Lude from what was always told your line going to your wastegate is always better near the turbo because your wastegate will see the pressure faster than haveing to get it from your intake mani or another source. I just tapped into my piping because i didnt wana drill a hole in my turbo to put a fitting but most turbo's have a fitting on the compresser housing to go to the wastegate.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by psychotic_z &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Buy a bigger wastegate, a boost controller, or a new boost gauge. For your DSM, buy all three.</TD></TR></TABLE>

a bigger wastegate then a hks 40mm that has been ran on cars over 400-500whp..i dont think thats a solution

ide have to agree on the wastegate location...how big is the opening on the manifold where the wastegate bolts onto? if its not the full size of the opening on the gate maybe you can port it out some..

ive had my wastegate pressure source on an intercooler pipe for my past two cars..a 650whp supra, and my dsm that should be over 500whp and they both held boost rock steady...also on my friends 380whp civic we have it on the i/c pipe....but i would tap it post-intercooler so any pressure drop doesnt get factored in from the intercooler

 

Ok i went and tried sourceing my vaccum line from the wastegate to the intake manifold and it made no difference than when it was off of my intercooler piping. I can hear my wastegate opening since its open dump and its loud *** hell so i know its opening. If i was to take the waste gate off and put like 15 psi of pressurized air to the wastegate should i see the valve open fully? If my waste gate is bad is there rebuild kits for them or what?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostin Ex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If i was to take the waste gate off and put like 15 psi of pressurized air to the wastegate should i see the valve open fully? If my waste gate is bad is there rebuild kits for them or what?</TD></TR></TABLE>

This won't work. The wastegate gradually opens, and is fully open at the psi equivalent to the spring rate. The wastegate begins opening before that psi is reached, therefore a wastegate won't hold pressure.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

TiAL says that for the wastegate you should use a vacuum source BEFORE the throttle plate.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree with this. I have tried it everywhere literally and the best and most accurate is the intake manifold as this is the pressure the engine is seeing.

 

The reason they recommend a location before the throttle plate is so the wastegate won't see vacuum, only boost.

 

What does this matter? Does this have any effect on the WG functioning properly? It seeing vacuum, that is.

I would think you would want it anywhere after the IC so it sees pressure after any possible pressure drop.

 

how is your tuning? it could be part of the problem. If your timing is retarding too much, or your AFRS are too rich, it will cause excessive exhaust volume/pressure/heat.

Once the tuning is spot on, it will decrease your wasted energy (better efficiency) through the exhaust which could cure, or help the problem greatly, depending on how good your tuning is.


Also the WG placement you have is probably only bleeding off part of one cylinders pressure which is probably the main issue.

Does your wastegate hook into your exhaust, or is it to atmosphere?

It also could be that, try disconnecting it from the exhaust, and run a dump straight down, you could also increase the pipe diameter for the wastegate dump to create a larger pressure difference to draw more air volume out.

Clean setup, i like it!



Modified by lazerus at 5:09 PM 3/1/2004

 

Lazerus i just found the problem i went outside and looked at my dump tube i figured it might be restrictive so i unbolted it and bam no more waste gate creep . But i did kinda melt my spal fan after doing a good third and fourth gear pull . Oh well i guess its a dsm thing if its not one thing its another. Thanks everybody for your thought's and replys.




Modified by Boostin Ex at 5:43 PM 3/1/2004


Modified by Boostin Ex at 5:44 PM 3/1/2004


Modified by Boostin Ex at 5:46 PM 3/1/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The reason they recommend a location before the throttle plate is so the wastegate won't see vacuum, only boost.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Vacuum doesn't matter as someone stated earlier. Just wanted to make that clear.

Glad to see you got it working. Sorry about the fan!!!