Hey all,

I just had a simple question. I'm definately getting a swap of some sort and I really had my mind made up on a B18B and getting some ls/vtec done on that (then I was gonna run good quality internals). I recently thought about it, and was wondering if it would be worth my time to install a B16A.. I was mainly getting the B18B because LS/vtec supposidly produces high amounts of hp and torque (with the correct tuning and upgrades) opposed to the smaller, less powerful B16A. Is it possible to get good amounts of power out of the B16A..? THe B18B would be out of a 94+ LS, with an ODB 1 ECU, etc. The B16A would come out of the old 88-91 Si-R with a PWO or PR3 ECU.. all opinions greatly appreciated..

Thanks,
-Andrew

 

hmmm ok.. what type of power levels do you think are attainable out of a B16?? like I'm most likely going to turbo the engine, but I want to run it N/A for a while, so I'd really invest.. this of course being opposed to the B18 with LS/vtec

 

i'd go with the LS/vTEC. torque possibility up in to 140-150 while b16's are about 120-130.
you can get the b16a with high hp but the Tq will be lower than the ls/vtec.
even our D16 street/race blocks are pushing out as much as b16 motors.
it doesnt mean that the b16 wont make power... its just preference.
but overall.. obd1 ecu is superior to the pre-obd ecus

 

ahh ok.. this is great.. getting views from both sides.. I just need to make a good decision. I basically want an engine with POWER and TORQUE, so the low torque of a B16 wouldn't really tickle my good books, but less hassle having the vtec already there.. and if I can get close to the same amount of poqer out of that rather than buying a B18 and getting vtec installed, why wouldn't I do that? SO yea, keep those opinions coming!

 

Well check this out.. i have a friend with a 95 civic,, has fully built LSVTEC with a blockguard and everything... He is spraying about 175 shot direct port... Runs real well... Now i have an 88 crx with a b16 stock block,, fully built head,, and 125 shot,, my fastest time in the 1/8 mi is 7.85 his is 8.65.... I know for sure that it is just as easy to make power out of a b16..... just my .02

 

From what I have heard, the Ls/Vtec is somewhat unreliable. What about turbo/Ls?
-kev

 

Go with the B16, youll have less headache to worry about because the motor is built to handle VTEC, plus you can swap to some Type R internals(such as cams and the intake manifold to name a couple). Not that the LS/VTEC is a bad setup, but Id do the B16 first before going LS,B20/VTEC.

 

Think about how you plan on driving the car! You have commented on wanting torque.

A B18b will make more torque than a B16a at a lower RPM, where a "daily driver" will see it!

When looking at printed horsepower levels, it can be very misleading! How often are you willing to run the engine to the redline? Think about this; a B18b has less torque than a B18c. However the torque is at a more usable (on the street) RPM range.

I'm an old guy and am used to V8's. As a result, I'd rather have usable torque where I'm planning on running the engine than have bragging rights of high horsepower at an RPM I'll seldom see.

Wes

 

hmm.. well is LS/vtec really that unreliable?? I do want the torque and yes it is a bonus to have a good portion of it at a relatively low rpm, but I would really have no problem pushing it to damn near redline (not all the time tho). I really was counting on getting the B18 with LS/vtec, but if it's really going to be a ton of problems, I'll just go with the B16 and work on that. All I really want is the torque, and if I can somehow attain good numbers (like 150-170) out of it, then I won't complain and will end up purchasing the B16. Grrr frustration!

Thanks all,
-Andrew

 

i always had the impression the LSVTEC was for the enthusiast that couldn't quite swing the cost of a B18C5. its an awesome combination. a B16A has 111 ft lbs of torque. the B18A/B has around 125 ft lbs of torque. the combination of high flowing B series VTEC head, and the displacement of the B18A/B using only the components of the 2, rivals the power of the B18C5. the rod ratio of B18C1, and the B18A/B are very close. as some argue that the B18A/B cant take the revs.

it is a know fact that the longer the duration, and higher lift profile of a cam the faster the cam has to spin to benefit . to much overlap at low rpm kills power. the secondary cam lobe on a VTEC cam has way more over lap then the cam lobe of the B18A/B, there fore it doesnt need to spin high rpms and the lower redline of the engine.

if you already have a B16 you can buy a stroker kit that can bump displacement up to 2.0 without any modifications to the block itself. im sure this will give you the torque you are missing.

 

well if u want your car for a daily driver go with the b16....and do some mods like they said earlie type r cams,manifold,header....i my self have b20vtec in my 91 4door...only way to do the ls,b20vtec in my opinion is to get it fully built...ive seen some stock ls,b20vtec's around my area and not worth the money might as well have gotten a b16....my set up pushes 211whp and 159.9tq 11:1 comp. and i drive it everyday even go grocery shopping with it....

 

what are the rest of the details on your set up?

 

True...also if u are gonna fully build one of the two motors it will cost more to do the LS/vtec (fully built) I feel! I have a b16a and an ls/vtec...if u are gonna go turbo then just go with the b16! turbo's make plenty of torque! with my ls/vtec its a good running motor and its fast but after redline its still pulling and I know the bottom isnt cut out for 9,000 shifts! its an LS(even fully built motors break)! the b16 can rev plenty and the limitations on the motor are much less in my opinion! I also have had no problems with my ls/vtec just the pro's and con's of potential...again just my 3 cents good luck on your motor choice.....

 

I like the way this man thinks. LS's on average make better "daily driver" engine IMO over B16 just for the sheer fact that they have gobs of useable low-end torque. Right where you need it for traffic, tooling around, and generally having an enjoyable car to drive on a daily basis. The main problem I have with every stock Civic or CRX i've driven is that they feel gutless with those tiny engine's. However you drop a 1.8 or 2.0L in them and they start getting a more favorable power/weight ratio. Add a turbo into the mix and you can really start having some fun.

I dunno these are just the prattlings of a sleep deprived and sick individual

 

well... Now i have an 88 crx with a b16 stock block,, fully built head,, and 125 shot,, my fastest time in the 1/8 mi is 7.85 his is 8.65.... I know for sure that it is just as easy to make power out of a b16..... just my .02[/QUOTE]

Now when you say fully built head what are you referring too that you have done?? and what were your quater mile times in that race?? what is also meant when you say a fully built motor??
chris

 

My head has REV valves, valve springs, stock retainers, and gsr cams with a mild port and polish...Plus all the bolt ons possible..... We don't have a 1/4 mi track here.. it is only 1/8.. And when i said fully built lsvtec,, he has pist,rods,blockguard, and all the boltons.... Im currently in the process of putting together another block for my crx... 84mm GE sleeved block with pist, and rods..
its gonna be fun....

 

Try to find a B17A. VTEC, same price and more torque than a B16, easier to install than a B18B or B20.

Some people here have wrong ideas about these lower displacement VTEC engines. You hear people talking about having to rev it all the way up to 4000-4500rpm in daily driving like that is so damn high you'll never get to it unless you are racing... but it's not true. Revving these engines up to those high rpms in daily driving is just as natural as revving the others up to mid-range rpms is. Sure, I may need to shift at 4000-4500rpm to accelerate swiftly in daily driving while my friend with his B18 shifts at 3000rpm to get the same speed... but what you don't see in that equation is how quickly I get to 4000-4500 rpm with my B17 compared to how long it takes that B18 to lug itself up to 3000rpm. Essentially, I can rev up to high rpms in the same amount of time or even less than it takes him to get to mid-range. It makes sense because my engine is built to run at high rpms and his is built to run at mid-range rpms.

The only thing that would hold you back is the fact that you might feel uncomfortable with the idea of revving it high. It took me a little while to get used to it after transitioning from my D16A6, but I got over it. These engines are built to rev, and unless you purposefully short shift you're going to get the better performance that is advertised out of them. It's more of a state of mind you need to get out of than a lack of performance on the engine's part. In other words, if it feels sluggish there's nothing wrong with the engine, you just ain't driving it right!


[Modified by B17ACRX, 11:14 AM 1/13/2003]

 

I HAVE A BETTER IDEA..........how about you get a b16 head on a gsr block. power of an ls/vtec without unreliability. much better id say.

 

the block je 11:1 pistons,crank balanced /knife edged/polished,bored honed and some more stuff i cant remember..... b16head itr manif,header/ctr cams,hirev springs/retainers.match port/polished,weld chambers,5angle valve job,str cam gears. Ive had the motor for a year already, i ran it alot at the track so its time for a refresh. ran it last march at idrc in az and ran 13.01@105mph with a horrible 60' of like 2.2...had too much air in the slicks because i didnt want to break axles since ididnt take any extras...

 

<U></U> Yea, im with this guy, thats what i heard too. i heard they only last about 6 months before goin dead on you.

 

all this talk about "that's what I heard" or "I heard this and I heard that"
who actually has had experience and built LS/VTECs?

at least the ones we do.. last long and not "go dead on you" after only a few months.

 

I am approaching 9k on my crvtec.
Just replace everything you can replace and do a total rebuild, i.e. bearings, seals, and gaskets.

 

like i said before if you are worried about it blowing why not just get a gsr block with a b16 head???. just as much power as ls/vtec and the block will be designed for vtec