jamal

Hi i currently own a 95 ls with a drag kit, now i blew my motor(LS B18B), and now i was deciding on getttin a b20b to replace the B18b..............now recently i talked to a good mechanic friend of mine and he says not to go with a b20b because the walls sre thinner than the b18b.

Now im having trouble deciding to switch to B16A motor or just getting another B18b.
Now another question is
1.will the b16 make more power than a B18b?
2.Is the high end going to be better with the B16a or B18B?
3.Has anyone seen any good results with this combo???
(p.s I dont wanna rebuild my old motor , (the block is cracked)

ImportReview

B16A will absolutely destroy the B18B or CRV turbo.

Without a doubt.

It is called VTEC dominates.

On the turbo cars we do here, at say 12 PSI...

we gain over 100 WHP from hitting VTEC.

say like 260 with no VTEC, and 370+ With VTEC.

In a race its all about the HP....I don't care what anyone says about torque or whatever theory they have.

More HP+same weight+same car+same tranny+blah blah bla=Faster car.

Its all about the HP. B16A is great for turbo.

Jeff

jamal

so how much boost can a stock B16a hold?...........and will I lose alot of torque from doing this swap???

Wide Open Throttle

no replacement for displacement.. everything else being equal..

btw, in a pure race enigne, vtec is useless.

TriK

i start to boost my b16a this summer, but the idea in my head was to built a b18c sleevec to 84 mm...

after the result with my b16.. i say" WHY" spend 4000$ in a b18c/sleeve/piston84/rod when i only spend a set of USED (500$) piston in my b16...

i dont want to be faster than the sound

the goal with it this weekend : 11.9 @ 118-120 mph

stock head...
stock rod..
JE piston 8.5:1
stock head gasket
stock bolt
stock ignition
tranny gsr
18 psi with a t3/t4 a/r60..a/r 83
ect..

i think the sleeve of the b20 a not the top choice of durability




[Modified by TriK, 6:33 AM 10/3/2002]

fire7882

He is keeping it stock, this is no pure race engine. Go with the b16 unless you want to put alot of money in the build

TiiiteCrX

il be there to see your 11.9 this friday trik

Slo_Akord

Yes you will lose torque, the B20 produce more torque than the B16 could ever put out.

Slo_Akord

Vtec actually hinders performance of high boost applications, due to the excessive intake/exhaust overlap in vtec

turbopanda

b20b turbo

modvp

How did you blow your engine? I have a 1995 b18b that i boost to 10 psi often.

DSF

Tell that to Viren and Mike. 9.xxsec down the 1/4mile....yeah, that VTEC is a restriction.

ekb18c

Whoever told you that is wrong!

fire7882

If you are not going to build the motor now, go with the b16. Then in the future you can get a b18b short bock for 300-400 dollers and build up a strong ls/vtec. You will be much happier with the b16. Also, vtec dosn't hinder performance at all.

ImportReview

Are you guys kidding?

VTEC hinders HP?

I don't know what is going on...but that guy in texas has corrode3d alot of people's common sense part of people's brains.

480 WHP@17.5 PSI

with VTEC.

Thats pretty hindered and too much overlap for sure. I better turn off the VTEC so I can lose over 175 wheel horsepower.

And the higher the boost we go, the more difference there will be.

VTEC is the best. Hands down.

Don't let anyone tell you, or argue differently.

EVERYONE running 8's is VTEC.

And 9's.
With VTEC motors

Jeff


[Modified by ImportReview, 11:02 AM 10/3/2002]

Rain_man

I agree you'll get more power with vtec versus not, but I hope you aren't comparing the power differences of vtec and non vtec by turning vtec on and off on a vtec engine because that really isn't fair.

Doodoo

I didn't believe in vtec until recently. I am very proud of my acheivements w/o vtec but I want more power. Simply put vtec. I was using more boost to gain 12s than other guys with vtec.

DSF

Hahaha...ROTFL

That's a good one Jeff

Ri5e

Sleeve your block and drop in forged pistons and rods.

The design (siamese) of the B20 sleeve is weak, especially when turbo.

jamal

this is how i blew my motor , a vacum line off my wastegate came off and i didnt know it....................so i at some times i was boosting up to a a full bar of boost on a stock bottom end...............
.the comes the question comes "how did i run that much boost on a stock motor
"the reason i was able to boost that high is that i have vortech fmu, aem fuel rail and 310 cc injectors and a aeromtive fuel pressure regulator."so i had enough fuel reagradless.. and the funny thing is that all motor peoblems could of been avoided if the mechanic's i took my car to had taken my questions seriously this all could of been avoided. The shops shall remain nameless.

SSBP DC2

why don't you go with the best of both worlds?

LS block with LS stock rods and pistons (if not plannin to boost that much)
...and B16A head

better flow with b16 vtec head for sure, you get lower compression and higher displacement with the LS block w/ LS rods/pistons

-demitri

Haberdasher

I was referred to this thread from another board; I had to get an account just to respond to it.

Jeff, you disappoint me, I met you a few times and you seemed smarter than this. I had my car worked on by your shop when it was Atomic, but since the change I haven't been pleased with the service of your shop, so I haven't returned. Looks like I made the right choice

VTEC is not best for turbo. If that were the case all the pros that are running VTEC motors would be running with VTEC enabled, but they don't. Ya sure VTEC motors will put down more HP at the same boost level as a nonVTEC motor but the nonVTEC motor puts out a ton more torque, and torque is what moves a car, not HP. How much torque do your 370hp @12psi (a figure I don't believe but I'll humor you) motors put out? I'll bet it's some where around 280 or 290 ft lbs. All things being equal the car that can accelerate the whole length of the track faster than the other car will win the race, that's what torque allows you to do, not HP. Turbocharging a nonVTEC motor will result in a much more usable power curve and much more balanced motor which will result in better performance than a turbocharged VTEC motor.

DSF

Secondary cam issues aside, yes, you are correct. A non-VTEC cam can be ground to the exact profile of a VTEC cam, so the power isn't located there. <U>BUT</U>, while the "pro's" may be disabling the primary/secondary lobes (either literally or by roller rockers), they are still running VTEC heads. A VTEC head, as it stands with todays available production technology, will always be superior to the non-VTEC variant. It flows more out of the box, has better oiling properties, and has a much better valvetrain structure to support higher revs (and I'm not just talking springs here). Besides, he wasn't asking to be an all out racer.

SEFIxCivic

i don't know who fills you in on your supposed "inside info" but if any pro's are not running vtec on their vtec motors... i assure you this is not being accomplished by simply disconnecting it electrically, thus deactivating the vtec soleniod. if they are running with vtec disabled, what that means is that the vtec rocker arms are permemently locked mechanically, which runs the motor the the vtec lobe at all times. So, in essence vtec is there still.

By mechanically locking your vtec it doesn't make your motor perform or function like an LS, which is what you seem to be insinuating. Locking your vtec mechanically gives you the virtually the same characteristics as having it activated by rpm electrically, due to the fact that drag racing is all high rpm. The benefit of having the vtec mechanically locked is for better oil control.

While I'm sure you've no doubt heard this all before, I'm guessing you still won't change your mind. That's fine.

Here at honda tech we go by solid empirical evidence, not bench racer theories.

ImportReview

I remember you.

Thats cool, I have dyno'd a Non-vtec motor before making 700 WHP.

on alc.

I think he hit a 10.00 at palmdale? I forgot.

I think alot of those Pro's are running VTEC. I really think that.

You could make a case that you could "custom" make a cam to be the same as the VTEC lobe in non-vtec... then you would get similar results but the car won't idle well at all...that would be full Race.

I would never build a racecar with No Vtec. But thats just my opinion. Probably because I could not afford to get cams made with a better profile.

We disagree slightly, its no biggie.

Jeff