Hello HONDA-TECH,

At the moment I'm working on a build for my 96 hatchback. I need help choosing the right turbo. If anyone could help I would gladly appreciate it. IM doing a complete build head to toe. My power goal is going to be 550hp to 650hp. Its going to be driven more on street and once in a while on the track. No E85 just race gas and pump gas.

PARTS LIST SO FAR

GSR Block
LS Trans
B16 Head
9.0.1 compression
82mm bore
manley rods
cp pistons
fluidampr crankshaft
morose oil pan
not sleeved
skunk 2 pro 2 cams
manley valves
manley valve springs and retainers
everything will be port and polished
victor X b16 intake mani
skunk 2 throttle body
LSD for trans
twin disc clutch
1000cc ID injectors
2 walbro 255 fuel pumps dual hanger
hondata ecu
coil on plug kit

NOW I'm not sure if i should go with a 5858 turbo or 5862 or 6062. I don't want to go to big because of turbo lag. Quicker response would be nice and also its not going to be fully track car more street so anyone could please help me out thank you.

 

Is this 550hp-600hp the goal you want to the wheels or to the crankshaft? What's the purpose of the car other than "street car". Considering you went nuts on the twin disk clutch, I'd say you were more drag racing than anything, but you need to be more specific.

Also, why such a high NA camshaft? that may cause issues in tuning with a turbocharger. What's your budget on the turbocharger? (Maximum willingness to spend on the turbocharger alone.. give a number, not a statement).
What exhaust manifold style are you using? (Yes, it does matter).

This can help at least narrow things down.

 

What exhaust manifold is being used? (^he just sked that, but it's pretty important to know)

What is the power goal on actual pump gas?

I see the 3 options you are looking at are all PTE units, are you wanting to stay w/ that brand specifically?

 

550hp - 650hp to the crankshaft
i haven't bought twin disc yet, turbo charger I'm looking to pay around 4 to 5000k for turbo kit. And exhaust manifold in looking for T4 twin scroll manifold. Thank you for the input and yes anything else's I ne do to mentioned that will help please let me know.

 

yes i would like to stay with this brand precision turbo. And actual goal on pump gas is the maximum I can get.

 

You don't need a T4 for basically a 500whp setup.

 

In that case I would use a T3 .82 a/r BB PTE 5862

 

Now why do you guys say use a T3 and also I would like to max at around 650whp is that possible with A T3. Also what's The benefit if useing a 5862 compared to a 5858. I will also be running BB no doubt about that.

 

You can get 650whp out of a T3 NP. T4 is when you want to start playing with the big boys but is not needed if you plan on trying to make a responsive street car. For us drag racers we live above 7K and don't need to worry about lag.

During a pass I never go below 9k.

 

Fixed that for you, nor do you need that style exhaust turbine nor twin clitch for this power goal.

You stated the amount for the kit, not the turbo some. But since you're staying precision, really only the 6262 would do that. It's big, cliche'd, and will be slower than a 400whp equivalent with a better powerband than what you're proposing.

 

You went from 550-650 at the crankshaft to 650whp. Which one is it? It kind of seems like you don't know what you want. Read up on turbos, inducer/exducer size what they mean, what they do, characteristics etc...also, ball bearing isn't what it used to be with today's turbos.

 

I don't really see the point in 550-650hp on a street car. Anything above 350-400 to the wheels and you'll just smoke the tires off until you hit fourth gear on the street.

 

Going to follow this up as well and ask what the highest WHP/fastest car is that OP has driven before on the street. Where your desire for such a high power output is coming from.

A 600+WHP FWD lightweight Honda is seriously just going to spin tire on the street until at LEAST 4th gear, the widest tire you'll be able to get on there unless you get overfenders will be a 225, and that's with a roll/pull.

The same car with 350-450WHP and a properly sized, responsive smaller turbo would actually be a bit quicker on the street (generally speaking) and a lot more fun/rewarding to drive.

Edit: Not to mention you'll have far less stress on the engine and drivetrain components, and less daily wear/tear on those lower levels. Sleeves also wouldn't be as much of a factor if you're not planning on getting the engine sleeved.

 

Honda tech




Thank you everyone for all your experience and knowledge on what you guys have given me already. I'm sorry if it seems like I don't know what I want. I know what I want just not sure what turbo will give me what I want. I know there's a trade off for quicker spool vs power in a way. I'm looking for a happy medium. I've been looking into the 5858 and the 6062. I want a fun car to drive around street on weekends and it will be garage kept never in rain and never in snow. Also I want to take to the track once in while seriously i will probably take it to the track 3-4 times out the year. If I can break into 11s I'm happy I mean a 10 sec car would be ecstatic. I'm not sure if I could break into 10s with a smaller turbo but if anyone can enlighten me on this I would gladly appreciate it. Thank you

 

What you're looking for is torque-to-weight ratio to work with a better overall powerband. You have to think a little bit outside of the whole "power" goals. You need to look at more than just horsepower here. The fact that you're trying to all of this on 93octane pump gas is what's hurting your goals and limitations. You need higher knock resistant fuel in some cases, so that the turbocharger can reach its efficient pressure range. Contrary to popular belief, turbochargers like boost pressure in order to get to their effective range of about 65% to 72% efficiency range. Otherwise, you get something too large, it will spool terribly, but get to your peak hp goal. Get something too small, and you get good torque, but you'll lose a lot of efficiency in the upper rpm band.

So, I'd stay in the 5858, 6062 region if you must stay with a Precision unit. Honestly, the smaller ones from Garrett and their affiliates do a much better job with the smaller turbochargers (they stretch a lot more than the Precisions in terms of better powerband for smaller displacement engines) than the Precision line, (especially with the knock-resistant fuel limitations you've given yourself) and even allow for water cooling in their journal bearing packages to help with cool down periods which is essential in daily driver use.

 

I echo this statement, the smaller GTX derivatives (GTX28/29/30) perform really well and are superior to the Precision stuff in a comparable size range. From 62mm upwards the Precision products outperform the Garrett GTX stuff again.

What some of the other member on here are trying to say is that a and a 10 second full weight pump gas car are two separate things. If you happy with a powerband that starts at 5000rpm and that doesn't detract from your "fun to drive" requirement then a bigger turbo is fine - but if you want something that is responsive and makes good mid range Torque numbers then you need to look at a smaller turbo.

A GTX3071 Gen 2 or GTX3076 Gen 2 will probably provide you a better all rounder and deliver a 11 second car at the track that keeps things fun on the street.

PS: Skunk2 Pro 2 cams are much too "big" for your setup. Depending on what turbo and manifold you go with the Pro 1's may even be a bit big. Stock GSR,/ITR/CTR or GSC T1 cams would be a better choice.

 

Thank you for your replies extremeracer why do you think the skunk 2 cams are to big. And also I was looking into the 6062 turbo but with a smaller ar like a .63 would that be better suited for me or should I stick with a .82 at

 

Because the exhaust camshaft allows for too much of an overlap condition in which these camshafts allow for a bit too much duration for turbocharging. Turbo cars like a decent amount of lift and shorter duration for the valves opening, especially on the exhaust side. Remember, you're not trying to scavenge intake air like an NA car. The entire theory of using a big NA cam for turbocharging only goes so far. Once you go over a certain size, it's a law of diminishing returns. So this is why we're saying that the PRO2 camshaft is a bad choice to use with any of the precision choices that you're looking at.

When it comes to the A/R of the turbocharger, all it does is shift your powerband to the upper rpm level (using the same sized turbine wheel taken into account). For smaller displacement engines under 2.5 litres, I've found that it's better to put the smaller turbine housing on a larger exhaust wheel, rather than put a larger turbine housing on, if it takes away from the purpose. You keep saying "street car" for "some fun", but when you use the too much of a lift/duration camshaft with the too large turbine housing A/R, you've change the purpose to be more drag race oriented.

I understand you don't want to "lose power up-top", but you won't; not for the purpose of what you're describing which is why we're saying to go back to an OEM camshaft of a GS-R/Type R (or at the very least a Skunk2 Tuner 1 or Edlebrock 4730 since Type R camshafts are hard to find) or get a specific camshaft used for turbocharging, such as the GSC T1 or Kelford 176-T.

(I believe there's a GSC T1 set for sale on the marketplace right now, which is a great buy).

But with specific turbocharger camshafts, be aware that "stock idle" is out of the window. In fact, they sound about as aggressive as a Pro2.

Here's an example or 2 of the GSCs.

They sound very different on most exhausts.

 

You can go with a big cam but you need to be big in others areas know what I mean LOL

 

 

That last part with curly was funny and clever lol but anyway I see what you are saying about the cams. I double checked on what cam I bought at the time from skunk 2 it's the pro 1s. Well I'll start looking around see if I can find a gsr cams. I don't want to go and buy tuner 1 cams now.

 

That was for AZ_CIVIC more than anyone. If you're at a Pro1, that may not be as bad if you're at about 61lbs/min or so, but that's like GT35R size and larger. If going smaller like the xx58 series, then yes, GS-R or Type Rs are going to match better than the Pro1

 

If you have time to wait about a month and would be willing to consider other than a precision I am installing a TR3030r (Garrett GT3076r with more goodies!) that TheShodan actually sold to me. I know we have different engines and builds but I will have dyno charts and videos up soon on my build thread.

My honest opinion, Ive had 4 turbo cars and on one of them I had a precision 5858 ball bearing unit. From day one on the dyno it smoked so much and spit oil into the charge pipes. I confirmed through precision that every aspect of the install and equipment dealing with the turbo such as intake size/ air filter, oil feed and drain, etc was perfect. They could not provide an answer to why it was spitting oil into the compressor side. I sent it out to them and they said it was the seals and sent it back. It didn't fix the issue at all. The car made good power (458whp) on 93 but it was a low revving car 7600 rpms and was out of breath at the top. this was in 2013, I had researched so much about precision and was confident that their bad days were past before I bought mine.

I'm not telling you that you shouldn't buy a precision but when I came into the Honda world and started researching I knew I would never want another precision. I talked to Shodan for a long time and figured out the best option I could for my goals which was a very responsive, yet hell on the streets type car upwards of 500-550whp. This is of course on e85 but you gotta make sacrifices sometimes. Im looking forward to trying this Garrett out as its my first one.

Im not trying to sway you either way on the brand of boostie booster you buy I just wanted to share my own experience.