Hey peeps,

I have a 96 civic that had a gsr in it, and I swapped it out for a b16b.

The gsr ran fine no issues, the b16b ran fine no issues ( donar car )

I swapped it over and converted the b16b to obd1 and have chipped p28 ecu. I also swapped the gsr tb over since the b16b didn't come with one.

It runs fine, until I blip the throttle and then it starts to hunt. between 1500-2700rpm.

I can reset the ecu and start it up agian and it will run fine until I hit the throttle again.

Is this the tps sensor acting up? It was unchanged from when it was on the gsr.

Also I replaced the clutch and while I did that I changed the slave, bleed it all. But it engages right and the very bottom, I move it a 1/4 inch and its fully engaged. Master Cylinder needs to be replaced?

 

I pulled off my intake arm and plugged the upper hole, it idled fine right away.

Plug the bottom hole and no change.

If its the top hole is that the iacv?

Any help would be appreciated

 

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-prelude-4/end-all-idle-surge-bounce-etc-problems-thread-1979500/

^believe it says it right there and I think that is in the FAQs. If not it should be

 

I did plug the lower hole inside the TB and it made no difference.

When I plug the upper hole it stops surging and works fine. Is that the IACV?

 

It would not hurt to take your IACV off and clean it real good. But I'm not sure that will fix the issue entirely.

 

TPS can be easily checked by measuring the voltage.

 

I was thinking of doing that tmw morning. Is the upper hole inside the TB associated with the IACV?

 

usually is the TB gasket, IM gasket, or IACV when the top is plugged

RonJ:
When the engine is throwing P0505 and has a high, hunting idle, pull off the intake and look into the throttle body opening where air flows. You will see two holes or ports on the inside wall of the throttle body. The upper port leads to the MAP sensor whereas the lower port leads to the IACV. Cover the IACV port with your finger. If the idle speed drops and fluctuation stops, then try to adjust the idle screw on the throttle body. If this doesn't work, then the IACV, ECT sensor, or TPS may be bad. If covering the IACV port does not affect the idle speed, there is a vacuum or intake air leak.

All vacuum hoses connect to nozzles on the intake manifold. Disconnect each hose one at a time and then cover the corresponding nozzle with your finger. If the idle speed drops to normal for any disconnected vacuum hose, there is a leak in that hose system.

If there are no vacuum leaks, then the throttle body or intake manifold gaskets/bolt torque should be considered next.

http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showthread.php?t=182186

Now since I looked that up for you go do yourself a google search or better yet:
http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...e+the+TB+civic

 

Update Feb 14th

I replaced the throttle boday gasket.

Dismantled and clean the FITV and IACV.

Car fired up and once warm it started to surge again.

Plug the upper hole inside the TB (IACV) surge went away.

Took the IAVC off my brothers civic hehe ( he didn't know )

Same issue. I thought maybe some air had gotten into the coolant so I bleed the systeam again.

Still surging. I thought maybe there was some something with the wiring so I checked it at the ecu and the sensor so it checked out. With the car running I unplugged the IACV and it bogged and ran like ****, so I know the sensor is good.

I sprayed the intake area with carb cleaner and nothing reacted to it. Gave a shot to the tb and then the motor bogged.

I dont know what else to look for. Headgasket? The oil is fine and the coolant isn't milky.

 

3. Check the plate inside the fast idle valve

This valve is bolted to the underside of your throttle body, and there is a flat access panel that is held on with two phillips screws. You can loosen one screw, remove the other, and then flip the plate out of the way to expose the inside of the fast idle valve. You will want the big white plastic disc inside to be turned nearly all the way IN. If it's backed out it will cause a idle fluctuation once the engine is warm. Most of the 92-95 Civics that come in my shop with an idle fluctuation have a backed out FIV plate. Most of them have already replaced all kinds of crap too.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-civic-del-sol-1992-2000-1/idle-surge-problem-2638781/

https://honda-tech.com/forums/tech-misc-15/surging-idle-how-tech-article-56k-beware-1003988/

Did you check the PCV?

 

Here is the problem. If you plug the IACV valve and it stops bogging then it's obviously the valve.. When you took off the throttle body, did you try cleaning it? When I had this issue, I plugged the IACV with my finger and it too stopped the bouncing. FYI disconnecting the IACV sensor is not method to test the IACV to see if it's the issue or not. I know this because mine bogged when I disconnected it and it's not mentioned in the helms as a test procedure. Since I have a Y7 engine, I took off the throttle body and cleaned it and the IACV thoroughly, all the little passages, took out the idle screw, cleaned off the carbon in every passage I could, same thing with the IACV valve. Difference is, I used rubbing alcohol and q-tips and not just soak it in some solvent and called it a day.

If plugging the hole for the IACV solves the issue, then the IACV is the issue. However you said you have a different engine and therefore intake and so it's possible that hole is for some other sensor. Take pictures of which hole you're plugging and a good overview picture would help... The Y7 has a different IACV than the one in the Y8/Y5/B16A2 but if you look at the helms test procedure, it says plug the hole and if plugging the hole fixes the issue, the IACV is at fault. It's easy to think you've fixed something when in fact you haven't. Also it's important to clear codes before testing again which you may or may not have the ability to do. If you can remove the electronic actuator that actually opens and closes the valve, then see if you can physically open and close the valve with your hand, I think you may discover that it's frozen which is why you can't actuate the valve. This was the case for me and I had to "break free" the valve after which I proceeded to clean inside of the chamber, opening and closing the valve, cleaning with q-tips until it turned smoothly, free of any "grinding" noise.





edit:
Just re-read your post, saw that you mention the TPS sensor.. Uh if the hole you're plugging up is for the TPS sensor, then the sensor is the issue. Sensor could be fine but incompatible or something. There should be like two holes in the throttle body, maybe three, one for IACV, one for TPS, and I guess in your case, one for the FITV. Are you using a throttle body that isn't intended for your engine? Maybe an intake system that isn't intended for your engine?

 

b16b is a nice motor.

 

stop not contributing to a thread to get post numbers please.


https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1844067:

This is how the FITV works..."At room temperature, the wax in the enclosure is small enough so that the needle is pressed in by the spring loaded valve, thus letting in air through the ring-cap and increasing the idle. The needle sticks out 6mm. As the temperature of the coolant rises to about 150F, the wax expands and the needle eventually protrudes to about 11mm at around 220F. The force of the needle on the spring keeps the valve closed. If the ring-cap is loose, there is not enough force to keep the valve closed thus letting in air and raising the idle when not necessary."

sounds like your problem.

And to the poster above...usually the fool proof method for the IACV is easy to see if its not working and you have a good spare. The OP said he took the IACV from his brothers car. Assumsing that his brothers car is not having the same problem (because his brother would be irate as well) and using his IACV, the car should have exhibited proper behavior with correct coolant bleeding. Assuming you bled the coolant right (Let you car sit and idle with your radiator cap off. Turn the heat on full blast. Let it run until no more bubbles come out of the radiator nozzle. Put the cap back on.) than that should have fixed it. Try the FITV trick...it sounds like you problem with the FITV.

You do have the gasket for the IACV correct?

 

Yes I took it off, cleaned the hell out of it. Assembled it back together, I screwed in the valve all the way, then backed it off 1/2 a turn.

I didn't mention the TPS sensor... The two holes inside the throttle body are for the IACV (upper) and FITV (lower)

The throttle body I am using is from a GSR, slightly smaller bore but the same thing.

The TB and FITV are off of my gsr which I removed, both in working order. Cleaned for the sake of emlinating all possible issues.

The IACV is orginal to the motor. I would have used the GSR one but it is GSR specific (bolt pattern)

The IACV I "borrowed" from my brothers car works fine, I put it back on his car and drove it work today.

The only gasket for the IACV is the figure 8 o-ring ad its in good shape and its not flat.

I bled the system a couple times but I did not turn the heat on full blast....cause that would mean there's air still trapped inside the heater core...

Thanks EFPhilly with the help so far, I will go bleed it with the heater on and see what happens.

 

So I cranked the heater on and let it warm up for nearly 30 min, some bubbles came out of the rad but nothing significant.

I just found this pic online but it will work for what I need it for.

The red circles go to the IACV

I plug those and the surge goes away

Blue circles is FITV

It has suction when the engine fires and then when its warm there is no more - Normal

Purple Circle is map

WTF is going wrong with it haha

I almost want to plug the damn hole with JB weld and call it a day.

 

Have you resistance tested the ECT sensor and voltage tested the TPS?

 

^check his first he is the guru...

tps:
http://ht-archive.net/showthread.php?t=2830131

(down at bottom)
http://hondaswap.com/~pills/obd1guide.html

 

Well maybe you have a messed up harness or some bad electrical grounds. Re-do all the electrical grounds in your engine bay by unbolting them and sanding them down to bare metal. Make sure there isn't rust ANYWHERE. Maybe the wiring for the IACV is backwards so the computer is inadvertently telling the valve to close when it intends to tell it to open!!

 

I tested them both the other day, getting .5v Closed and 4.6v open. Tested the ECT at the plug and the ECU, I also robbed the ECT offof my brothers car haha.

Ya I went through all that and still the same result.

Nope, That would throw a code.

 

FIXED!!!

What a pain in the *** to deal with. The FITV and IACV were only part of the problem.

After I tried all those things I got fed up and started spraying Carb Cleaner all over the intake thinking there has to be a leak. I ended up spraying most of the car around the TB area and all of a sudden I got a sudden drop in idle and it was coming from the TB cable area.

So I soaked the area by the wheel and then it kept sucking it in. Bogging big time.

I yanked the TB off again for the 6th time and started to study the tb gasket, not for tears or defects but for coverage area. I still had my original gasket and started to compare and yes they were the same, covered the same areas.

But then I noticed that the gasket cut across the opening for the FITV and part of it was outside the seal area. So I got a sheet of blank gasket and cut one out and blocked off the area that wasn't covered and put it all back together. Fired it up and waited for it to kick down.

It stuttered for a couple minutes wanting to surge so I took the rad cap off and let any air escape and then it idle fine, like nothing was wrong.

Took it for a nice drive and then decided to give it and it felt great.

Thanks to you guys for all your help.

Here's what I mean

Purple = Oem Gasket

Green = Is what I added when I cut my new one.

 

People never check this. This is the second thread this week where this was the problem...

You have a gasket for a manual since you prolly got it from the parts store telling them it was for the manual version of your car, when in fact you have the auto with fitv. I kept saying FITV...so I told you so.... lol. Even if tightening the FITV was not the problem it was FITV related.

 

Lol just block off the fast idle and re route the coolant lines works every time people have this problem daily

 

Ya ya haha, BUT when I pulled this swap from the clip it was a manual swap. Both motors were pulled from clips with manual transmissions.

Also the oem gasket ran perfectly fine when the TB was on the GSR motor. It only gave me issues when I took it off and put it on the CTR.

Either way its done and fixed now, thanks for all the help.

Next week im tackling the brakes. I already installed a 1" Master and booster, and Wilwoods are going on all four corners.

 

Hmm I thought FITVs were on auto's but I have had one on all my manual motors too....so wtf? And just for the future, I never buy OEM gaskets because I have a BDL 70mm tb and the gasket looks funky once you start hacking it up to 70mm. What I have found works the best is a universal sheet up this flat cork type material. You place old gasket on there, draw it out and cut with scissors. No leaks everytime.


Glad you solved your problem and GL with the brakes. I still have to upgrade my booster lol....mine has been setting in the shop....hmmm

 

Ya thats exactly what I used was a sheet of Mr. Gasket. I also heard you can use a Manila Folder...

I have a Version 2 Sk2 tb and it came with the larger bore gasket.

I used a booster from a 99 Integra LS Special Edition, it did have ABS but it bolted right into the EK with no modifications to the line or anything. Its a huge improvment over stock, I can't wait to get the Wilwoods on, 6 piston up front and single in the rear. I thought my wheels would be here this week but it looks like next week, so the brakes have to wait.