Alright folks, I got a killer deal on a type R block (I would have settled for a gsr block I could not pass up, I bought it completely disassembled. I have a complete stock b16 head, some may think this is stupid, but its personal preference and its not costing me anything, I have a friend that will trade me his complete stock gsr head straight up, so I plan to do that. My question is I can either put the ITR rotating assembly back in and go with an ITR bottom end or, since the internals are already out, I could get a ls rotating assembly and have basically an ls/vtec without having to get the conversion kit. Would like some opinions here on what would be the way to go. Its my daily driver, I do want to build it, but its not going to be some all out crazy build, and its getting tuned immediately (I dont take chances, nor do I cut corners). I have had an ls/vtec before and loved the power if made, but it was a royal pain in the *** as far as stupid little problems occuring, and not sure I want to go down that road again. I would like to see what kind of power people are making with their mildly built setups. Whatever bottom end I go with, its probably just gonna be ITR or CTR cams and some pistons with a little more dome (probably pr3's from RS machine), nothing to serious, and I dont have a specific power goal in mind, just looking to see what people think and numbers their putting down, to help me decide.

 

Id put the 89mm crank and rods in the ITR block. Essentiallly making a stroked ITR. You will make ls/vtec numbers but in a sturdier block. You may have to plug the squirters depending. Some people have reported they clear and others said they definately do not.
In the end, the extra displacement means more airflow through the engine.
I say use the LS crank.

 

Thats what im leaning towards, thanks for the input

 

You gain a bit more displacement with the LS rotating assembly, but the R rotating assembly has a nicer crank and much better rods. Personally, I'd use the R stuff, but its a subjective decision. There is not a definitive argument for or against either of them.

A factor to consider, if you are on a tight budget, is that you could sell the R rotating assembly, buy an LS assembly and have some cash left over.

Best of luck with your project.

 

All good points, but my dilemma continues.

 

ahh, just flip a coin...Either one are good foundations for strong setups.
Or....
How about you use the ITR crank,sell the other stuff you wont need, and purchase some titanium rods?
ITR with Ti con rods= BADASS!

 

Why exactly would this build need Ti rods?

 

why are you trading a b16 head for a gsr head again?

 

Its not that he NEEDS it, but it may help him in making the decision to keep the ITR crank!
Imagine how much fun a naturally aspirated ITR with Ti rods would be!
Veeeeee Faaaawking Taaaack!!! LOL

Hes probably swapping to the gsr head for a little bump in compression (my guess)

 

[/quote]Hes probably swapping to the gsr head for a little bump in compression (my guess)[/quote]

Correct, if I can get a gsr head for a strait up trade, I would rather have a gsr head. Anybody think I should stick with the b16 and why? And please dont tell me it flows better, that subject has been argued to death.

 

Absolutely..

 

Alright, im pretty set now on the ls/vtec setup, but im still stuck on the head . . . The way I see it is most people claim the b16 head offers better low-mid range power, where as along with better quenching which helps with detonation and raises compression making it so you dont have to run such a big domed piston to get compression, the gsr is better for top end power. An ls has pretty good low-mid range power already, hence the attraction of ls/vtec, so I would think the power would be more useful up top, which by that reasoning would make a better powerband throughout the entire rpm range, that makes sense to me, but correct me if im wrong.

 

You have some of the benefits backwards between the B16 and GSR heads. It's not that one will make more power up high, it's that it has better potential to make more power up high on a larger displacement motor like a B20. Simply put, if you're building a strong street/strip engine, go with the GSR head, higher end racing, you'd probably be better of with a B16a head. Some people mill the B16 head down to the point it resembles GSR chambers and run it like that. Like what was said earlier, if you have the GSR head, just run that.

 

I have a b16 head, I was offered a trade straight up for a gsr head, and thats why I was considering it. My build is by no means going to be an all out build cause its still my daily, I was just thinking oversized p30's, bored to 81.25, ITR/CTR cams, and a ITR intake manifold, 2.5 in exhaust, and hytech replica, nothing special. So your personal opinion for this setup I should stick with the b16 head cause it will offer a more useable powerband?

 

GSR head would be better suited to a build like that IMO. I'm about to swap a GSR head for my B16a head on my build.

 

Maybe I misunderstood what you said, but didnt you originally say I should stick with the b16 head unless im going with a bigger displacement i.e. b20/vtec?

 

I was under the impression that you already had the GSR head instead of the B16a head. I see it's the other way around. You felt the B16a head was better for low end to mid range power but it's the GSR head that should be a little better in those areas. The B16a head is often used on B20's with success because of it's ability to make power as it's intake ports are larger than the GSR ports (just one example).

 

my understanding is that a b16 head is a ITR head with different cams, true or not?

 

It's the same casting but the ITR version has different intake valves, better valve job with minor porting and upgraded valve springs for the higher lift ITR cams.

 

got it

 

The ITR rotating assembly is far better balanced stock than the 89mm LS rotating assembly. When I bought my b18c5 from King Motorsports (the Mugen Distributer) I was told the rotating assembly (crank/rods/oil pump) are safe to 9500rpm stock. Obviously valve springs are needed to safely reach those kind of rpms. The 1.8mm increase in stroke of the LS crank is not worth downgrading to lower quality parts. Years ago endurance racing teams were buying ITR motors from Honda and running them stock as that was the most reliable motor out there. Honda didnt just design the ITR motor to be fast, they built them to take abuse and not blow up.