hey i searched and didn't find anything helpful but feel free to show me the way haha anyway i have a jdm b20b in my 96 four door and i want to turbo it now i know all about the cylinder walls being thinner etc but realistically you a could set up maybe 50 trim on ten pounds be that much of a problem with a good tune? thanks alot all help in appreciated

 

bbump any1?

 

i don't know about your history with hondas but i think your best bet would be a set of R pistons and a vtec head. It is def cheaper if you do the work yourself and you will save a ton in the long run. In theory a b20 vtec can run forever, wall thickness is just as much an issue with this setup as it would be with it stock. With a turbo it is just a matter of time before you crack a sleeve and then you are out of a block. The safe amount of power you could make with a turbo is about the same if not less than the vtec option, without the hassle.

 

hey man thanks for the help when you say type r pistions do you mean connecting rods and wrist pins or just the piston cause I have a set of those at my house haha


Modified by 4doorek96 at 9:12 PM 6/15/2008


Modified by 4doorek96 at 9:14 PM 6/15/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by efstile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i don't know about your history with hondas but i think your best bet would be a set of R pistons...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Except for the fact that the Type R pistons are 81mm and the B20 has a bore of 84mm.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by efstile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">With a turbo it is just a matter of time before you crack a sleeve and then you are out of a block.</TD></TR></TABLE> Only if you run into problems with detonation. Otherwise a turbocharged engine should last almost as long as a stock engine, when tuned & maintained properly.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by efstile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The safe amount of power you could make with a turbo is about the same if not less than the vtec option, without the hassle.</TD></TR></TABLE> How so? You really think someone will safely make as much or more power with an N/A B20/VTEC engine, by adding stress when you have to rev it higher and higher, than with a turbocharger?

 

so your saying turbo right?

 

so your saying turbo right?

 

eagle rods and rs pistons(84mm itr specs) and a set of bigger injcetors. oh and about 1 hour at the dyno. better the a stock b20 turbo but i love the sound of the blow off valve. i would do a sohc turbo just to lisen to the bov.

 

Crvtec better than b20 turbo is that right?

 

Neither is better than the other, they are completely different. It depends on how much power you're really looking for & how much money you're willing to spend, for now and for the future. Anyone's answer to go one way or another at this point is solely based on opinion.

 

i am looking have a fast car for the cheapest amount, i had a ek si with an ls turbo on 18 pounds with a good four hour tune street and dyno and it ran 13.5 but at 121mph so it just burnt the whole track i loved it and it sounded awesome, so i might go that route but i iheard you couldnt boost a b20

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSpoon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Except for the fact that the Type R pistons are 81mm and the B20 has a bore of 84mm.</TD></TR></TABLE>



84 mm spec of course



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSpoon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Only if you run into problems with detonation. Otherwise a turbocharged engine should last almost as long as a stock engine, when tuned & maintained properly.</TD></TR></TABLE>



how is this kid going to cheaply tune and maintain this turbo motor? AN FPR!? A turbo will atleast need Hondata S200 w/ boost. not a bad option if the kid can wire, otherwise just that is going to be atleast 1g with installation plus the cost to tune.



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSpoon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How so? You really think someone will safely make as much or more power with an N/A B20/VTEC engine, by adding stress when you have to rev it higher and higher, than with a turbocharger?</TD></TR></TABLE>



FACT Boost at any RPM is stress. This kid isn't boosting this thing for the gas mileage. hes boosting it to run at the track. If this thing is going to be a DD, you are going to want the "put around town torque" from the B20/Vtec. Its pretty hard not to pull into boost when you are just putting around town. Boosting is going to use a hell of a lot more fuel if you are driving it somewhat hard.



Now for some personal experience. I had a B16A1 w/ a straight t3 turbo in an EF hatch. I tuned it with a stock PR3 ecu, Vortech FMU, B&M FPR, and aWalbro 255l fuel pump. I was somewhat hard on it, i was 17, nuff said. It ran its ***** off for 4 months and then i cracked a sleeve. It weighed 2120 according to the truck scale at the local Gas station and it was on pump 93 octane. 13.0 @ 108 on BFG 225 drag radials. SO... if you arent planning on tuning it any better than that, plan for a short block life.

 

i would go b20vtec i just got mine done about 2 months ago and i love it really easy and just as good at turbo but will last for long time

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4doorek96 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey man thanks for the help when you say type r pistions do you mean connecting rods and wrist pins or just the piston cause I have a set of those at my house haha


Modified by 4doorek96 at 9:12 PM 6/15/2008


Modified by 4doorek96 at 9:14 PM 6/15/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

sorry i didn't see this one. if you've got about $400 to spare along with the head swap, i would definitely get the rods, still wouldn't rev it harder than 8500 with the long stroke. be aware that if you use the stock rods, you can get away with reusing the rod bearings, but just replace them to be safe. ACL rod bearings are the way to go. i would without a doubt replace the rods bolts with ARP studs($90) whether you decide turbo or vtec. that is another critical point in ls/b20 bottom ends that are a must to replace if you are going to boost or rev. it would also be a good idea to replace the head studs with ls/vtec ARP head studs($90). you might as well while the head is off.as far as pistons go, Wiseco is a good company produced by JE that makes a decent piston, and they come in many varieties, i would aim for about 11:1 compression. if you want to save the money on the rods, atleast have them checked out at a reputable machine shop and shot-peened.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by efstile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
how is this kid going to cheaply tune and maintain this turbo motor? AN FPR!? A turbo will atleast need Hondata S200 w/ boost. not a bad option if the kid can wire, otherwise just that is going to be atleast 1g with installation plus the cost to tune.</TD></TR></TABLE>
In the OP's original post, he never said anything about a budget or wanting to do something as cheap as possible. He asked about boost, so I assume if he was going that route then he'd do it the right way. If you want power, you have to pay to play.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by efstile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FACT Boost at any RPM is stress. This kid isn't boosting this thing for the gas mileage. hes boosting it to run at the track. If this thing is going to be a DD, you are going to want the "put around town torque" from the B20/Vtec. Its pretty hard not to pull into boost when you are just putting around town. Boosting is going to use a hell of a lot more fuel if you are driving it somewhat hard.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The OP never mentioned anything about fuel economy, or about it being a DD or a track car. You said that a safely boosted B20 would only make the same amount of power, or LESS power, than an N/A B20. My point was that power for power, a relatively stock B20 is going to make more power from boost than staying N/A, and still be reliable IF you do it right (aka proper engine management and a tune). But regardless, you take it to an experienced tuner who isn't just going to tune it for WOT. You take it to someone who will tune it for street driving (cruising) as well. That way you get decent mpg.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by efstile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now for some personal experience. I had a B16A1 w/ a straight t3 turbo in an EF hatch. I tuned it with a stock PR3 ecu, Vortech FMU, B&M FPR, and aWalbro 255l fuel pump. I was somewhat hard on it, i was 17, nuff said. It ran its ***** off for 4 months and then i cracked a sleeve. It weighed 2120 according to the truck scale at the local Gas station and it was on pump 93 octane. 13.0 @ 108 on BFG 225 drag radials. SO... if you arent planning on tuning it any better than that, plan for a short block life.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I completely agree with you here. A turbocharged engine needs proper engine management to last. That's why you should get a real EMS and get it tuned properly. I never, and would never, say that someone should just turbocharge and engine without that.

 

jesus fing christ this whole thread is full of misinformation...

if you dont know what you are talking about please dont bullshit and spread false information.

b20/vtec is fun but no way in hell its as fun as a b20 turbo.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSpoon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
In the OP's original post, he never said anything about a budget or wanting to do something as cheap as possible. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i beg your pardon.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4doorek96 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i am looking have a fast car for the cheapest amount, i had a ek si with an ls turbo on 18 pounds with a good four hour tune street and dyno and it ran 13.5 but at 121mph so it just burnt the whole track i loved it and it sounded awesome, so i might go that route but i iheard you couldnt boost a b20</TD></TR></TABLE>

FACT This kid is on a budget.
I'm not one of those NA&gt; BOOST guys. I've had both and love for what they are worth. but with a stock b20 on a budget, i'd have to say it would be much easier over a period of time to manage. Even if he says f uck it i'm boosting it, he should atleast pull the head, throw a block gaurd in, ARP head studs, replace the head gasket(obvious), reinstall the head w/ adjustable sprockets. MIND YOU if he is doing this right and putting rod studs in it, he will have to pull the pistons and have the studs pressed in. Thats just about everything you will have to do for a crvtec minus the turbo install and extra b/s.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The Lobster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">jesus fing christ this whole thread is full of misinformation...

if you dont know what you are talking about please dont bullshit and spread false information.

b20/vtec is fun but no way in hell its as fun as a b20 turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What is the misinformation? I don't remember the OP asking for what would be the most FUN. If you want fun go to a circus. Now that's fun.

 

i really wish mods would DEDUCT points from people who post wrong info so the percentage would SERVE A PURPOSE, instead of deducting points if you hurt someones f'ing feelings.

and throw a turbo on your four door already.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by efstile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What is the misinformation? I don't remember the OP asking for what would be the most FUN. If you want fun go to a circus. Now that's fun. </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by efstile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i don't know about your history with hondas but i think your best bet would be a set of R pistons and a vtec head. It is def cheaper if you do the work yourself and you will save a ton in the long run. In theory a b20 vtec can run forever, wall thickness is just as much an issue with this setup as it would be with it stock. With a turbo it is just a matter of time before you crack a sleeve and then you are out of a block. The safe amount of power you could make with a turbo is about the same if not less than the vtec option, without the hassle.</TD></TR></TABLE>
just for ***** and giggles B20 block can safely handle up to 300 hp lets see you try to get to that with a b20vtec. and of course the "R" pistons. In reality a b20vtec wont be able to run forever as morons will spin it to 8200 rpms and the crank wasnt balanced to handle that much rpm.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4doorek96 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i am looking have a fast car for the cheapest amount, i had a ek si with an ls turbo on 18 pounds with a good four hour tune street and dyno and it ran 13.5 but at 121mph so it just burnt the whole track i loved it and it sounded awesome, so i might go that route but i iheard you couldnt boost a b20</TD></TR></TABLE>
you ccan boost a b20 just like you can boost an h22

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by acura1808 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would go b20vtec i just got mine done about 2 months ago and i love it really easy and just as good at turbo but will last for long time
</TD></TR></TABLE>
lasting a long time is all in the tune and its not as good as turbo it will never make the power a turbo can.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by instrument &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i really wish mods would DEDUCT points from people who post wrong info so the percentage would SERVE A PURPOSE, instead of deducting points if you hurt someones f'ing feelings.

and throw a turbo on your four door already.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The Lobster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


just for ***** and giggles B20 block can safely handle up to 300 hp lets see you try to get to that with a b20vtec. and of course the "R" pistons. In reality a b20vtec wont be able to run forever as morons will spin it to 8200 rpms and the crank wasnt balanced to handle that much rpm.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes i understand a stock block can handle 300 hp. but it is going to take a lot of tuning and will not last long at all, ESPECIALLY w/o block gaurd, ARP rod/head studs, head gasket.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The Lobster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
you ccan boost a b20 just like you can boost an h22</TD></TR></TABLE>

two totally different motors and no, no you can't.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The Lobster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
lasting a long time is all in the tune and its not as good as turbo it will never make the power a turbo can.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok girls. i understand the simple physics that a turbo CAN make more power. I bet for 0.44962 seconds a stock b20 could make a 1000 horsepower. Now you must understand that a tune is not going to make a stock block w/ a turbo last forever, the abuse on stock internals is too great. just the simple risk of blowing head gaskets and leaky oil lines is enough to make someone opt for a simpe 200+ hp DD. Oh yeah, and everyone just calm down.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by efstile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i beg your pardon.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Read what I wrote again. I said the OP never stated he was on a budget in his original post (or 1st post if that's more clear to you). I responded in this thread TWICE, after he posted 6 times, before he mentioned anything about being on a budget.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by efstile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yes i understand a stock block can handle 300 hp. but it is going to take a lot of tuning and will not last long at all, ESPECIALLY w/o block gaurd, ARP rod/head studs, head gasket.

not alot of tuning just an hour...check evans tuning. ANYONE with any experience will tell you a block guard is more harm then good. Any real tuner will tell you to avoid the block guard as it creates hot spots and premature sleeves cracking. you dont need arp rod bolts for that build thats redic...head studs i agree...and OEM headgasket will work jsut fine

two totally different motors and no, no you can't.

yes you fing can wow where the hell do you get your information. there are so many turbo H22 and turbo b20s just take a look at the FI section or check out all the stock h22/b20 on evans tuning


Ok girls. i understand the simple physics that a turbo CAN make more power. I bet for 0.44962 seconds a stock b20 could make a 1000 horsepower. Now you must understand that a tune is not going to make a stock block w/ a turbo last forever, the abuse on stock internals is too great. just the simple risk of blowing head gaskets and leaky oil lines is enough to make someone opt for a simpe 200+ hp DD. Oh yeah, and everyone just calm down.

oil leak? wth? do it right then you wont have to worry about it...people on homemadeturbo.com put together **** kits and last 3+ years and still going strong. Your head gasket wont blow if you have arp studs as well as a good tune so there is no detonation. Making a 200+ N/A b20vtec isnt that easy also...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

you might want to take a look at this thread COMPLETE stock block adn look at the power they are pushing and some even state how long its been running.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2036623

on experience sake my friend has been running his turbo lude stock everything for 5 years so far no problems. My brother had an ls/vtec pushing 419 hp for 3 years no problem he sold sold the block to get out of the game and the new owner is now pushing 800+ hp on it.

oh and i am using evans as an example because he has all the dyno charts and mods listed and organized on his site.


Modified by The Lobster at 2:16 AM 6/19/2008

 

you can get jdm itr pistons in 84mm on egay

 

thanks everyone for the info mucho mucho appreciated im not so much on a budget as i am just not wanting to spend alot of money on something haha... in my si i had just over 3000 in it including the cost of the ls and it ran really good i have the hook up with tunning so thats never a problem i just cant get a straight answer on if i could run a turbo on a dd b20, not for life but for a good while after all it is just an engine buy a new one right