It's almost time to start assembling the engine and I've been thinking about how I'm gonna seal the head to the block. I've been pretty set on using copper o-rings, but it seems to be kind of a risky proposition on stock sleeves. If you take a look at my block, you'll see that iron portion of the sleeve is pretty thin.



I'm worried about compromising the strength of the sleeve by machining a groove into the already very thin iron liner.

I've been thinking about using a "raised sleeves" approach to giving the chamber seal more bite. Basically, I'd take a .005" clean up cut on the sleeves since I need to anyway. Then, I'd take a .007" or .008" cut on the block's surface that is not part of the sleeve. So, the sleeves would stick up about .002" or .003" higher than the rest of the block.

Does anyone have experience with either of these items? I know that copper o-rings have been used forever, but most people seem to use them on resleeved blocks. I am not sure how they will do on a stock block.

Thanks,
Sonny

 

i would o-ring

 

put an o-ring in the head to press down around the sleeve. has worked great for me.

 

It would take a special machine shop to do your set-up as described. Most shops deck the block with a machine that cuts across the whole deck at one time. You would need to find a shop that has the equipment to just surface the outside portion only. Probably would be more expensive than doing o-rings.

 

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the responses.

BoostinDC2: Are you running stock sleeves? What size (thickness) of o-ring wire did you use? It's copper, I assume?

Earl: I have access to the machinery necessary to leave the sleeves a bit taller than the rest of the block. It would cost me nothing to have it done like that, but I'd have to drive a few hours to my friend's shop. A neighboring shop that he is good friends with has several extremely trick CNC machines that they use for making high performance boat propellers.

I like the idea of o-ringing the head since it doesn't require any groove to be cut into the sleeve. It seems like putting one in the sleeve is potential trouble since the sleeve is made of 2 different metals and I wouldn't want them to "split".

Sonny

 

Some have done o-rings in the head sucessfully. I'm not a fan of head o-rings because if you subsequently have to surface the head, it messes up the o-ring. I'm told by machinists that it's almost impossible to recut the o-ring groove in the head. I don't have first hand knowledge on re-o-ringing a head.

 

if you're running stock sleeves, I wouldn't worry about O-ringing. A Cometic head gasket with a fire ring should be more than enough to seal the boost you plan on making.

 

John,

Unfortunately, Cometic does not make a gasket for this engine (D16A1/ZC). If they do make one, it is not listed on the their web site. I guess I could call them and ask.

I plan on boosting 15-20 psi and making around 225 to 250 whp.

Thanks,
Sonny

 

oh, well ****, i didnt know you were building the bastard child ZC.

Do they even make a full metal head gasket for those motors?

 

Do they make that for the SOHC Vtec?

Sonny how is the block coming along? Looks good in the pictures


[Modified by b20z, 9:10 PM 7/14/2002]

 

Cometic does make a gasket for a SOHC VTEC D series engine. Unfortunately, the DOHC D series engine uses a slightly different gasket. I'm gonna try http://www.raceeng.com for one for the ZC.

Sonny

 

D16A1=1g teg

WTF a D16A1 should be nothing like the ZC because a D16A1 head gasket can be used on a EW1?!?!

-Dustin

 

Do you have the D16A1 confused with another engine (the D16A6 maybe?) ?

The D16A1 is basically a USDM ZC. It's the only DOHC D series engine to ever make it to the states. All other USDM D series engines are SOHC. The EW series engines are D15 SOHC engines.

Sonny

 

Sonny,

When O-ringing blocks, Steel Wire O-rings are actually used, its basically small wire shaped into a ring, We had to make ours by hand, and use special cutters for the wire so it would not taper.

I was also worried about the size of the deck and how big the o-ring grove was going to be, The machinest that did my work put the grove directly in the middle of the sleeve half steel/iron. Once the work was done, you actually super glue the rings in place then install the gasket (copper or stock) and torque it down.

You can either do the Block or Head, or you could be real fancy and do both, One with a reciever grove for optium sealing. If you want tech info, call SCE they have great knowledgable people about this subject.

If you do not want to go that route you could easily just buy a HKS ZC head gasket. They make metal head gaskets for Forced induction, 1 time use only though and they are kind of spendy. They have 3 type Beed/Grommet and Stopper

range from 150-400 bucks. (alot if you ask me)

Good luck Sonny

Jeff Frank
http://www.homemadeturbo.com

 

Hey Jeff,

How's it going with that built ZC? Did you get your new turbo yet?

Thanks for the info! I totally forgot about HKS. The HKS BEAD style gasket sounds very similar to the Cometic "fire ring" gasket:

The HKS Bead Type Gasket is popular gasket because of its very effective sealing properties and structural design. The raised bead structure around each combustion chamber ensures a tight seal for applications with high compression and high boost conditions.

Does anyone have any experience with HKS headgaskets?

Sonny

 

Its getting close... very close, its at the exhaust shop now getting the custom manifold made. After that I will need to order my air-water intercooler. The intercooler is going to be mounted inside the car near the ecu.

Once its back from the shop I got lots of little **** to do, install a Tach, reroute some wires, punch some holes in the firewall, install some new injectors (900cc)

I have been getting involved into some road racing and kinda wish I didnt design this car for drag racing, may have to do some modifications to it

Hey, since you are known as the junkyard turbo ***** Got anything you would like to get rid of, relitivily cheap?

Jeff Frank

 

Cool, man.

AFA as turbos, I am out at the moment. The last time I went to the yard, it was real disappointment. That place is picked clean (partly due to me ), so I spent the day getting gas shocks for my buddy's hatchback!

There are a TON of Chrysler cars there with Garrett T3's on them. I could probably get 10 of those things if I could figure out an easy way to get them off. The engine is positioned like a Honda, but the exhaust manifold is on the firewall side. I don't see an easy way to get the turbo out and it can't really be inspected until it comes out. Hmmm...

I am trying to get setup so that I drag race the CRX and a road race the shifter kart. I'm not sure if you've ever been in a 125cc shifter kart at full throttle on a road course...it absolutely kicks ***!

Sonny

 

its actually stainless steel aitcraft wire and almost always 032", be very carfeull cutting it as it is exteemly hard and wire ends can easily take out an eye. it helps to preheat slightly the receiver groove before forming the 0.

 

How is the wire held together after it is cut? Is there an open end or is it somehow fused back togethe so that it is a continuous "O" ?

Thanks,
Sonny

 

Woohoo...raceeng.com saves the day again. They have a Cometic gasket for the D16A1/ZC. They do not have the one with the "fire ring" in stock, but they ordered one for me (takes 3 weeks to make it...ouch...oh well). Cost was $90. That's half the price of the Greddy gasket.

Thanks for all of the tips, everyone!

Sonny

 

cool..im glad to hear someone makes a good gasket for the zc.. do u think the zc will hold up to 20 psi on the stock sleeves?? i see u got them pinned

i planned on building my zc also for turbo..but i was gonna see if i could get some better sleeves..so i culd bore it out some and still be safe...who makes sleeves for the zc??