I currently have a greddy td04-15g kit with emanage on my del sol, its at five psi right now. I left it at that because the motor has 283,000 km on it, so i dont want to pop it. However im currently gathering all the parts for my bottom end rebuild and some other stuff too. So far I have the tuner toyz forged H beam rods, skunk 2 intake mani, stage 2 excedy clutch, 7 lb fidanza fly wheel, soon i will be going to get the pistons, i was thinking of aries low comp. and i also need an innercooler, please let me know what other things you would recommend and what kind of numbers you think i will be hitting after my build at about 14 psi, thanks.

 

I have no experience with it(although I pplan to in the near future) but, everybody who gets the zex 59300 cam says it's amazing.

also didn't see it on your list but a BOV will be needed. several people have reached the 250whp mark with the greddy kit and better internals.

since you seem to be after the same basic concept I am check out my plans:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1727010

Some of the parts(specifically the pistons) are far cheaper than the forged pistons such as wiseco, arias, etc. while still providing reliabilty with thepotential to get excellent #s... I believe one guy using vitaras has a 350whp daily driver. The important thing is to be on the look out for good deals(I just picked up a JRC 6" intercooler for 75 shippe to my door!)


Modified by broketuner-Sol_Si at 12:39 AM 12/30/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboDsol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I currently have a greddy td04-15g kit with emanage on my del sol, its at five psi right now. I left it at that because the motor has 283,000 km on it, so i dont want to pop it. However im currently gathering all the parts for my bottom end rebuild and some other stuff too. So far I have the tuner toyz forged H beam rods, skunk 2 intake mani, stage 2 excedy clutch, 7 lb fidanza fly wheel, soon i will be going to get the pistons, i was thinking of aries low comp. and i also need an innercooler, please let me know what other things you would recommend and what kind of numbers you think i will be hitting after my build at about 14 psi, thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The Skunk2 manifold is a waste of time/money. Fitment on it is total crap. Each to his own on that. Personally, I wouldn't drop the compression below the stock levels (9:1). No need. Go get a Johnny Racecar intercooler if you can find one around. Cheap and very good quality. I'd say at 14psi, depending on management, you should see 250-270whp.

 

i say mid 200s to high 200s

 

I Have a turbo smart blow off valve on it as well, sounds mean

 

if i were you i would post the block as i did on my last built

my friend owns a local machine shop that fabricates the posts specially for Hondas/Acuras

 

what do you mean post the block? Im going this friday to get my pistons, I was going to do vitaras on forged rods, because ive seen them on ebay for $169 for a set including rings, and ive heard alot of 350whp stories. but i decided i just want to do it right the first time and have peace of mind. Should i go for Aries? or SRP, also i think i have to get the greddy intercooler because i have the greddy kit anyway thats what ive been told but not sure. i guess i should also get a block guard?? any other suggestions?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboDsol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what do you mean post the block? Im going this friday to get my pistons, I was going to do vitaras on forged rods, because ive seen them on ebay for $169 for a set including rings, and ive heard alot of 350whp stories. but i decided i just want to do it right the first time and have peace of mind. Should i go for Aries? or SRP, also i think i have to get the greddy intercooler because i have the greddy kit anyway thats what ive been told but not sure. i guess i should also get a block guard?? any other suggestions?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wouldn't waste the money/time on posting the block. Been proven time and time again that this is not needed.

As for the pistons, Vitaras are VERY cheap. $140 shipped is not uncommon and that includes the pistons, rings, pins and clips! I've seen many 400whp setups with these pistons which should be more then enough to keep most people happy. For the price, hard to beat.

Just because you have a Greddy kit doesn't mean you are limited to a Greddy intercooler. Get whatever intercooler you want and make the piping to fit. Not difficult.

The block gaurd is just as useless IMO as the block posting.

 

I know im so tempted to just say expletive it and go vitara, but i just want it done right, as stupid as it sounds even though maybe theyre just as good, im going forged with aries or srp, not sure which one is better, some other stuff on my to get list this friday is the pistons, turbo timer (hks?), Boost controller, and injectors and fuel pump, please let me know your feed back on which ones to get

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboDsol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know im so tempted to just say expletive it and go vitara, but i just want it done right, as stupid as it sounds even though maybe theyre just as good, im going forged with aries or srp, not sure which one is better, some other stuff on my to get list this friday is the pistons, turbo timer (hks?), Boost controller, and injectors and fuel pump, please let me know your feed back on which ones to get</TD></TR></TABLE>

Never used Arias. Used JE's and SRP's. Prefer the SRP's over the JE's as they are quieter. Yes, I know JE and SRP are the same company. Doesn't matter. Different silicone contents.

Vitaras will no doubt be "Weaker" but the real question comes down to what your power goals are. Sub 400whp, I'd save the money and get them over the forged alternatives.

Turbo timers are nothing more then fancy gadgets if you ask me. Handy? Sometimes in a blue moon, yeah. For the most part though, you aren't going to flog the **** out of your car and then shut it right down. Most of the time you will have a good 5 min soft drive before shutting it down. I've never had any issues without one and have no plans of getting one. If you MUST have one, they all do the same. Get something cheap.

Boost controller... I've used the Bltiz Spec S, Greddy profec B II, and the AVC-R. Feature wise the AVC-R has my vote... but its FAR from cheap. I'd personally say to get the Greddy profec B. Only because I have used them and have never had any issues with them. The features are also more then adequate for most people.

Injectors? Personal preference once again. I've used DSM's, precisions and RC's. I would say I had the least trouble with the RC's as far as installation and tunning. They seem to be a little more popular then the other brands. DSM's required the most work as you need to add the resistor box. Agian, this choice is going to come down to "what are you power goals?".. Decide that, then pick your injectors accordingly.

Fuel pump, in my opinion, is not needed unless you plan to crest 250-300whp. I've been using a stock pump for some time now with 0 issues. I don't have a dyno for you, all I can tell you is I trap at 102mph and the chassis is 2,250lbs without me in it. Thats on street tires. I'd say somewhere around 190whp or so. Nothing special. Flooding the rail with pressure isn't the right way to control fuel delivery.

If you are planning on sticking with the Greddy 15g turbo like your post says and only pushing 14psi... Then skip the pump. Its not needed. Find some 440's or so and you will be fine. Block gaurd and posting again would be a waste... I would even say the forged pistons would be a waste also. You won't be seeing much more then MAYBE 300whp on a very strong build with the 15g, and thats pushing things. 15psi is the most I would ever push out of my snail, and I run the larger 19T kit.

 

OK, so i got some more toys last friday, i got the aries 9:1:1 pisotns, skunk 2 adjustable cam gear, arp head studs, apexi turbo timer, now im thinking walbro fuel pump and precision turbo injectors and greddy innercooler and im almost done, any other things i should need or suggestions??

 

block posting does help cylinder flex under high cylinder pressures and thrust loads

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by USDM 4G VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">block posting does help cylinder flex under high cylinder pressures and thrust loads</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats fine. Titanium rods would also help too... but the question again is "is it worth the money"... Again, my opinion stands. Waste of money and time. Many people have made very impressive numbers without all the fancy crap. Who the hell needs more then 400whp on a front wheel drive street car? Come on.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats fine. Titanium rods would also help too... </TD></TR></TABLE>

hmm no, titanium rods only prevent failure due to power onto the rod itself

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but the question again is "is it worth the money"... .</TD></TR></TABLE>
for $38 and 45 minutes of your time?? YES

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Many people have made very impressive numbers without all the fancy crap. .</TD></TR></TABLE>
its not fancy, its an improvement
can power be made without them? YES, but for how long?
just like all the people on turbod16 who have made plenty of power on stock internals, it can be done, but at what cost and how long?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Who the hell needs more then 400whp on a front wheel drive street car? Come on.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I AGREE with you. At that power level its a little to ridiculous.

like i said, these posts help on the thust loads created on the piston as it goes down. remember the piston is aligned with the bore, but the rod goes down on an angle. that creates a load into the side of the cylinder walls as the piston moves. thats why you see always scars on the pistons skirts when any turbo motor its torn apart.
under light detonation, or high cylinder pressures, the posts help reduce the flex the stock cylinders have in order to prevent them to crack, or break the cylinder headgasket seal.
cylinders dont have to move alot, all it takes is a little vibration to crack them, blow the headgasket, or warp the head during an overheat due to their movement


my point? its better to have block posts than stock sleeves alone

 

i agree with you about the other poster saying aftermarket parts are fancy.

they are not for looks they arent even seen and given just that statement.

internal parts ie: sleeves,rods,pistons are all made of higher grade metals that allow them to take alot more stress than OEM parts.

yes you can make power without them.

however soemone who is truly looking to take on boosted application, would go with sleeves,rods,pistons BUCAUSE, oem sleeves only allow so much power!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by USDM 4G VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

hmm no, titanium rods only prevent failure due to power onto the rod itself

</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, titanium rods are not only lighter, but they will take more stress. Hence the increase in strength. Just along the same lines as your block posts, only far more valuable.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by USDM 4G VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
for $38 and 45 minutes of your time?? YES
</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is a D series we are talking about, not some indy car race engine. I dunno about you, but I don't like spending more then I need to on a D. Besides, $38 would get you some ARP rod bolts, far more usefull then block posts.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by USDM 4G VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
its not fancy, its an improvement
can power be made without them? YES, but for how long?
just like all the people on turbod16 who have made plenty of power on stock internals, it can be done, but at what cost and how long?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

From what I have seen, for quite some time actually! Look around this place. See what you find. How many of the blocks are posted? See where this is going?


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by USDM 4G VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I AGREE with you. At that power level its a little to ridiculous.

like i said, these posts help on the thust loads created on the piston as it goes down. remember the piston is aligned with the bore, but the rod goes down on an angle. that creates a load into the side of the cylinder walls as the piston moves. thats why you see always scars on the pistons skirts when any turbo motor its torn apart.
under light detonation, or high cylinder pressures, the posts help reduce the flex the stock cylinders have in order to prevent them to crack, or break the cylinder headgasket seal.
cylinders dont have to move alot, all it takes is a little vibration to crack them, blow the headgasket, or warp the head during an overheat due to their movement
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thrust loads are directly related to the r/s ratio of the engine. You aren't going to reduce them by adding in some rediculous posts. Your only using a bandaid to try to give you more room for error.

Scars on the cylinders and pistons? You better learn what an air filter is for and change your oil more often. My engines were never scared. I must be lucky.
You shouldn't have any detonation to begin with. If using some block posts to allow you to "mask" a problem makes sense then by all means, use em. I prefer to tune something to operate correctly within safe parameters. This means I don't need to worry about things like detonation. The headgasket seal can be better controlled through ARP headstuds. The headgasket seal is usually compromised from head lift more then it is sleeve shifting. It takes a TREMENDOUS amount of pressure to crack the sleeves at that. Way more then you are probably aware of. If you have this level of pressure in the chamber, you can pretty much bank on something dying to prior then your sleeves. Hope you have forged internals to go with those block posts. lol.

 

My suggestions would be sell the skunk2 mani, unless you plan on tying for more than 400whp. Stock is fine, and a y8 mani is almost as good as the skunk2. Since you have the money, go with ~9:1 Wisecos (or arias/je), although vitaras are okay for 300's *and* good tuning. Detonation will destroy both, but I'd rather have a melted piston than a ringland end up in my turbine. No offense to vitara guys, I just don't expect him to be tuning with Neptune. You'll also want injectors (assuming you get Crome/Hondata), 550cc+. For an intercooler, any of the bar-plate fmic's from ebay.ca will be fine under 400whp.

The main upgrade will be the downpipe and exhaust. The best gain will be from a 2.5-3" DP, and a 3" exhaust will help a lot. If you can, get replace greddy elbow off the turbo with a tubular 2.5-3" piece. Any exhaust upgrade after the turbo will help power at all RPM's, as well as reduce spool time.

As for doing an OEM or vitara build, its ~$400USD cheaper. With good tuning 250whp, OEM parts should last a good while. However, stock components with high milage and typical dis-repair of a d16 will lead to a blown motor if you try for 250whp for a couple thousand miles.

I also wouldn't suggest posting unless you know what you're doing. Last posted block I saw was a real hack job - mis-aligned, *mild steel* bolts, leaking due to the soft putty crap used, and all cross-hatching behind the posts were gone due to piston-sleeve contact. Unless you do it right (aluminum studs, devcon epoxy, completed before boring sleeves), don't do it at all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thrust loads are directly related to the r/s ratio of the engine. You aren't going to reduce them by adding in some rediculous posts. Your only using a bandaid to try to give you more room for error.

.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i never said they are reducing the thrust load
i said they control & reduce cylinder movement/virbation under the high load

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is a D series we are talking about, not some indy car race engine. I dunno about you, but I don't like spending more then I need to on a D. Besides, $38 would get you some ARP rod bolts, far more usefull then block posts.

</TD></TR></TABLE>whats wrong with a D?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Scars on the cylinders and pistons? You better learn what an air filter is for and change your oil more often. My engines were never scared. I must be lucky.
You shouldn't have any detonation to begin with. If using some block posts to allow you to "mask" a problem makes sense then by all means, use em. I prefer to tune something to operate correctly within safe parameters. This means I don't need to worry about things like detonation. The headgasket seal can be better controlled through ARP headstuds. The headgasket seal is usually compromised from head lift more then it is sleeve shifting. It takes a TREMENDOUS amount of pressure to crack the sleeves at that. Way more then you are probably aware of. If you have this level of pressure in the chamber, you can pretty much bank on something dying to prior then your sleeves. Hope you have forged internals to go with those block posts. lol.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Scar pistons always happen.How many times have you opened turbo motors with more than at least 5k miles? My friend owns a shop (check signature) and i see this issue all the time. I have NEVER seen a piston out of a motor with good miles, that doesnt have any sign of scars on the sides. NEVER. NA and boosted.

i bet your engine also detonates sometimes. Just because you dont feel it or hear it, doesnt mean it doesnt takes place. ask a good tuner about it, thats why checking plugs during tunning helps understand what happens under WOT, even when they dont hear/feel knock


****all i am saying, is that a posted block is better than a non posted block

this is just like a blockguard vs no-blockguard debate. no one will ever win

so, since i already brought my point accross 2 posts ago, i will rest MY case

 

OK, so i got some more toys last friday, i got the aries 9:1:1 pisotns, skunk 2 adjustable cam gear, arp head studs, apexi turbo timer, now im thinking walbro fuel pump and precision turbo injectors and greddy innercooler and im almost done, any other things i should need or suggestions??