Got a 88 CRX and dropped a JDM B16A in it. very quick little car. went to Turbo it and got the Stage II FMAX turbonetics kit. Everything mount great and looked beatiful. BUT .. air/fuel ratio was really lean, like the extra injectors weren't working properly. So i threw that out and got 440cc Injectors and a V-AFC II to try to tune it up... now its to rich. maxed VAFC to -30. low as it could go and still rich, better, but rich. plugs foul up and everything.

mods : 255liter Walboro fuel pump, 440cc injectors, V-AFC II > i'm runing about 8 lbs of boost from turbo kit.

My only idea is to maybe lower the injector size to about 370 and get a adaptable Fuel Pressure Regulator.

If you done a swat/turbo like this, i am very curious wat mods you got or if you have any idea why its having such a **** time w/ air/fuel.

 

dont recomend a VAFC, for the pric eof the VAFC you can run BRE or turbo edit. but if you must, try lowering the fuel pressure a bit?

 

Thats the plan, again I'm shooting for 370 injectors and a fuel pressure regulator.. We where thinking the walboro pump was to high of pressure, so we double checked it. was at 38 lbs, wich was regular on the vehicle stock

 

Listen, to nelsmar. Get BRE or turboedit and get your car tuned. It'll have more hp and be far more reliable.

 

ok i dont mean to be a *** here but i always got responses like this from the othere board i was on. He's asking for help, not what parts to buy.i mean i know the guy so this helps me understand a little bit better but he bought a turbo kit had it installed that didnt work and he bought fuleinjectors and a fulemanegment system, dose this sound cheap? now all that honda-tech can say is buy this other(probably exspensive) fulemanegment system. and WTF is a BRE or a turbo edit? ive never heard of it? where do you get it ? is it exspensive? who makes it? got a link?

 

turbo edit is software you use to edit the ECU.

now i agree with you that they're jerks around here sometime,s but they're knowledgable jerks. when they give advice, its usually for the better. just some of the people around here arent the best at giving they're advice. as good as it usually is.

for the $$ you spent, turboedit would have been far more realistic and reliable. however, because you already spent the money, you might as well TRY to utalize it.

try lowering the fuel pressure a tad. get it tuned, think about chipping the ECU, i'm sure theres guys around here who can get it chipped to run better for you.

i dont know much about this crap, i'm just running ideas at nearly 5am, but if you give these a shot, you should have luck.

 

Try some 390`s out of the automatic talon, There Grey tops

 

i hate to stay this because the guys r right about buying more things but if i was u sell the VAFC and buy a WIdeband o2 senor that Air/Fuel ration gauge is just for looks there not accuate at all. just a light show if u ask me. if i was u buy widebrand o2 senor, and get turboedit the software is free! but u need an eprom and chips and a computer.turboedit will do wounders with that turbo. change maps and adjust fuel and vtec and and and ect.

heres info on turboedit and chipping in general
turboedit.org i think or http://pgmfi.org

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zodman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ok i dont mean to be a *** </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, don't then.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zodman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> He's asking for help, not what parts to buy.i mean i know the guy so this helps me understand a little bit better but he bought a turbo kit had it installed that didnt work and he bought fuleinjectors and a fulemanegment system, dose this sound cheap? now all that honda-tech can say is buy this other(probably exspensive) fulemanegment system. and WTF is a BRE or a turbo edit? ive never heard of it? where do you get it ? is it exspensive? who makes it? got a link?</TD></TR></TABLE>

He asked and was given the best advice to date. I don't think I generated a parts list. As to the cost, I believe others have spoken to this so I won't, but you get what you are paying for and chill with the BS attittude.

Here's even better advice: Use the search button (top right corner)

 

ok so the stock ecu is capable of handling boost? i was under the asuption that in order to hanle that kind of mod the ecu need to have a mass air sensor and ill be darned if i can find one on that civic.
Just out of curiosity what makes the VAFC 2 not good? I mean from what little playing around we did, it dose seem pretty user "unfriendly", but with the stuff it moniters and his acclerometer it could provide some usefull data.

As for the turboedit , so buy the sounds of it it lets you creat new maps for the ecu then im guessing you flash those to the ecu? also is there a limit to how many times the ecu can be flashed? my WRX ecu can only be flashed so many times then the ram goes to carp, im not sure if this is a normal thing or a subby thing so?

P.S. about the prevois post , had a bad day, please forgive /bow

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zodman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok so the stock ecu is capable of handling boost? i was under the asuption that in order to hanle that kind of mod the ecu need to have a mass air sensor and ill be darned if i can find one on that civic.
Just out of curiosity what makes the VAFC 2 not good? I mean from what little playing around we did, it dose seem pretty user "unfriendly", but with the stuff it moniters and his acclerometer it could provide some usefull data.

As for the turboedit , so buy the sounds of it it lets you creat new maps for the ecu then im guessing you flash those to the ecu? also is there a limit to how many times the ecu can be flashed? my WRX ecu can only be flashed so many times then the ram goes to carp, im not sure if this is a normal thing or a subby thing so?

P.S. about the prevois post , had a bad day, please forgive /bow</TD></TR></TABLE>

VAFCs aren't great because when u turn up the fuel do u know exactly how much u did or do u just know u turned it up 10 or 15 points?? they can work but u need to dyno it at the same time to see what ur doing and turboedit can tune the motor way better, more tunable. plus u buy the chips u can flash the chips so u may have 4 chips with different setting and u just un plug and plug in the next. chips are like 5 buck each so its way cheaper and tuned way better.

 

you HAVE to have a wideband o2 sensor to tune.

and bre / turbo edit are cheaper than an vafc.

if you know how to solder. bre / turbedit are free. conversino to ecu is less htan 20$. you can buy kits for 20$. and the burner to re-program the ecu is about 50-60$ shipped.
now this lets you get full data log on your laptop and everything. so your looking at no more than 70-80$ and it has FAR more features than VAFC. including vtec engagement. changing hte raw maps of air temp comapred to fuel modifier. fuel injector modification. launch control. full bar vs rpm ignition / fuel ratio tuning. and use of other MAP sensors.

the stock fuel system can handle boost! 1.1 psi... after 1.1psi you will lean out to dangerous levels. with bre / turbo edit you add fuel / timing maps that add fuel in boost.
the stock fuel system is good til 6-8psi i think? i cant remember when the duty cycle goes out. so if youi plan on using 6psi. sell those injectors got a cheap wideband for tuning. YOU NEED THIS, NO EXCEPTIONS! not tryng to be an *** i hate to se eyou blow yoru motor. and i want you to enjoy it ot the fulest. it will be faster with this setup.
the stock MAP sensor can read up to 10.5 or 11.5 psi on obd0 cars. so if you plan no running more than that in boost you need a new sensor. try to keep it under 9psi if you have to touch 10, map sensors run for about 50$.
if you need any help pm me, i can help you get started.


information: http://www.pgmfi.org

 

Yes, your stock map sensor can handle about 15psi. You could upgrade to a GM 3 bar sensor. You can't you a mass air flow sensor without some serious doing because you honda ecu uses tps position, manifold pressure and temperature to determine the amount of air flow.

A VAFC would not be good because it tricks the ecu to increase fuel but not the ignition timing.

See here:
https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=2

Copied from that thread.

Read:

An air fuel controller adjusts fuel control, and in some cases VTEC activation. This is GREAT for a DSM (like a 4G63 eclipse/tallon etc...) because that engine uses a MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR. Honda's use MAP sensors (manifold absolute pressure or intake air pressure sensor). What's the difference between the 2 and why will it work for one and not the other??? Simple.

-A Mass Air Flow system adds fuel based on "How much air did I just suck up". MASS AIR IS A REAL VALUE. Real values have a basis, and no further calculation is needed. "X air needs X fuel." Adjusting any values PAST that point in the ECU's equation is OK!!!!! If you add fuel to that mixture (by increasing the injector duration), then the ECU will acknowledge that input and add fuel.

-A MAP sensor style system only sees what the manifold pressure (and other data) is, and then has to CALCULATE in order to figure out "How much air did I just suck up?" This number is NOT a REAL VALUE, but a derived value, and therefore is a variable. "X manifold pressure-times X throttle position-times X RPM-times X intake air temperature-times......." ".....equals how much air I FIGURED OUT that I sucked up." See the difference?? The ECU NEEDS this data in order to come up with a derived number for "X fuel."

So here are ALL the reasons why NOT to mount up your AFC:

1: ALL Correct Sensor Data is NEEDED.
A Honda needs all its sensor data, and needs to receive it CORRECTLY to determine how much air it's getting. It auto adjusts for fuel consumption based on these sensor values. If you're running boost, then you need to TELL THE ECU it's getting it. Unfortunately, a Honda ECU in stock form doesn't have the programming for any manifold pressure ABOVE normal barometric pressure. So, what happens when a Stock ECU sees boost at the MAP sensor??? The ECU doesn't have enough data to calculate the fuel table, so..... "Check Engine." "Please help me, I'm an ECU and I'm dumb, what does 7 psi mean?? I don't have that number in my tables, so I can't calculate. Wait a minute....if I don't have that number, then the MAP sensor must be broken, because if I don't have the number, then it doesn't exist. Please replace the MAP sensor." An AFC won't cure that. ONLY A NEW ROM CHIP WITH BOOST TABLES WILL CURE THAT.

2: The ECU "auto adjusts" itself.
Let’s say you want to tune in 10% more fuel with your AFC. Fine, tell your AFC to add 10% more fuel. No problem right?? Wrong. What happens to the O2 sensor when it's got 10% more fuel?? It tells the ECU that it's running 10% rich. So, the ECU "auto adjusts", and takes 10% out of the mixture. You've added 10% with the AFC, and the ECU has taken 10% back out to get back to stoich. What's the net increase in fuel?? That's right, 0%. NOW...... Lets add fuel until the ECU can NO LONGER adjust (or, you've added so much additional fuel that the ECU doesn't know what's happening, and can't compensate that far). Simple. You run rich. "Hi, I'm the check engine light again. There must be something wrong with my O2 sensor because I've backed the fuel off as far as I can go, and it keeps telling me that I'm still too rich. Please change the O2 sensor for me, because that must be what's wrong with me. Thank you."

3: VTEC engagement point calibration.
VTEC is a combination of 3 different things. 1: The changeover of the cam lobes. 2: The changeover of the fuel MAP. 3: The changeover of the Timing MAP. If these 3 things don't happen all at the same time, what happens?? Simple again, you have a "hole" in the fuel and timing MAPS. If VTEC engages at 3000 RPMS, and the fuel and timing table follow the ECU's instructions and changeover at 5200, then have you added any more fuel and or timing from 3000 until 5200?? No. Therefore, what did you gain?? Nothing. So what, the cam changed over, but you didn't add any fuel to it, or change the timing curve. You got more air, but the ECU didn't know that it was going to get it! So it didn't DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. Yes, adding more air makes it FEEL like you're making more power sooner, but all you're REALY doing is running lean for a few seconds.

4: An AFC can't tell the ECU what kind/size/style injector you're running.
The ECU is programmed for one particular injector size and style. The one that CAME in your car from the factory. If you change the injectors to a larger size, the ECU MUST be reprogrammed in order to realize this, and take away or add some injector duration. If .013 seconds is the time an injector needs to be open to add fuel at 4600 rpm's at wide open throttle with a 240 cc injector, then how much MORE fuel is added with a 440 cc injector held open for the same amount of time?? Correct. Nearly double. That means you've added 2 times MORE fuel than the ECU thought it added. "Hi, it's me again, Check Engine. Yeah.... Ummm, What the expletive."

 

BRE and TE are both freeware for tuning. I have a nice B16 Basemap you can use with BRE if you have the PR3 ecu. it was tuned for my b16 with a T3 .48/.60 up to 12 psi.

you guys need to hit up http://www.forum.pgmfi.org and learn something.

 

OK, i'ma look into getting the Chip Programmed to ECU and Wideband ... Definetly..... installed new smaller injectors and still rich as ****, I'll grab a Fuel Pressure Regulator just to be on safe side, since i installed the W. 255 fuel pump. Now, wat i am probably gonna do is keep the VAFC II in there, just reset all the maps to 0 and use it to read the data from the ECU and the playback feature. Do you think this will cos a problem leaving it hooked up ?
But I would like to say Super Help on the post to all of you. very good info. learned a few things. I'm gonna try out the ECU chip and see how that goes, probably take it back to dyno so they can tune it there.. actually nvm on that, i'ma go to a dyno center that has done this before , know any clost to the Iowa QC area, or i can take it to Chicago if needed,
I'll get back after i do this, let you know how it went
Thanks Again

 

the only thing that VAFC's going to hurt is leaving it hooked up, is ur pocket. sell it, wide bands aren't cheap a good one 200 easy.

 

ok the A/F gauge he has in the car now is hooked up to a wideban O2 so it should be correct yes?
autometer A/F gauge and autometer wideban O2

 

nada hu
aka bump

 

BUmp

 

lol when did they start making wide bands? does it say the AFR on it... in a NUMBER. not "Stoich" "rich " "lean" ... if it is a wideband when you are WOT in gear you will read 13.2-13.8:1 at idle you will read near 14.7:1 does it say this on your gauge? if not your a narrow band. wide band keep 300$ in your pocket. you can find a cheaper one for 200$. depends on what unit you want. they all use the same bosch 5 wire wideband o2 sensor(eh 60$ part) the control unit runs 100-300$ because of its features. you cannot just use hte bare sensor. the contorl unit is part of the sensor. some sensors have built in ogging. some have output to a gauge. some have memory built in to save and download later. some have inputs for rpm map etc.... look around. autometer doesnt make a wideband that i know of its narrow band stuff. it reads 14.5:1 - 14.9:1 AFR ... your looking to tune 11:1 - 12:1 to be safe. so obviously the narrow band wont do a THING for you. narrow band gauges just dance thats all. itsj ust to look neat. does nothing at all

good luck!

 

and tip. dont tune to stoich on boost you will melt something in record times. lol. fact dont tune stoich with all motor. it needs to be built to take that at WOT at high rpm. just thought ide add that! just tryng to help you out a narrow band says rich meaning there is mreo fuel than 14.7:1 (aka 14.6:1 or lower).