I have a Xenon x600.1 (rated at 842 watts RMS) and a Diamond D3 400.4. My question is which gauge wire should I have running from my battery to my distribution block? I think have a 4 gauge to the Xenon and 8 to the DIamond will be good from the block, but I'm not sure what to use from the battery to the block. Any input?

 

Run 0g from battery to distribution block. And 4g from distribution block to the amps. If you use acapacitor install it before the distribution block. I would run a capacitor.

 

okay thanks, and does anyone know if that will prevent my amp from going into protection mode. i was playing my music at 75% today and out of no where the subs just stop working and i find out the light for my X600.1 is blinking.

 

There is different reasons for it to go into protect mode. Make sure and double check that no wires are damaged and that there is no severe power loss.

 

I seriously don't think you need 0 gauge... that is overkill, expensive as hell and a pain in the *** to run through a car...

 

you dont need 0gauge. 4gauge wire has a total of 1400w max so you will be fine. its also cheaper but if u got th emoney go with 0gauge because if u ever upgrade to something over 1400watts u will have to buy all new wires. But they are expensive. i just got those in my car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by central_driver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you dont need 0gauge. 4gauge wire has a total of 1400w max so you will be fine. its also cheaper but if u got th emoney go with 0gauge because if u ever upgrade to something over 1400watts u will have to buy all new wires. But they are expensive. i just got those in my car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you can not define a gauge of wire being capable of supporting a certain level of power like that - it just doesn't work.

It takes current to make power, every amplifier is going to require different levels of current to create, lets say, 1000W.

To judge if a wire can safely carry the level of current you need, you must specify the voltage drop you are willing to accept, the diameter of the wire (gauge), AND the length.

Therefore, you can't simply say that 4 ga is good for 1400W....

 

If it was my own car, with those amps, I would run at least 2 gauge and use a cap as a distrobution block.

Alternatively, if you already have one 4g ran, just run another run of it back and put the cap on the sub amp lead.

 

yea i agree with rcurley.

the gauge you need depends on the length and the amount of current your amps will take at the most.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thejacka &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a Xenon x600.1 (rated at 842 watts RMS) and a Diamond D3 400.4. My question is which gauge wire should I have running from my battery to my distribution block? I think have a 4 gauge to the Xenon and 8 to the DIamond will be good from the block, but I'm not sure what to use from the battery to the block. Any input?</TD></TR></TABLE>OK here is my $0.02 worth, first your Xenon X600.1 is 1x600W RMS into 4 ohms down to 1 ohm, [the output is "regulated" and your Diamond D3400.4 is 4x57W RMS into 4 ohms, [total of 228W]

I would run a 4ga, [with a 150A ANL fuse and holder] directly to the sub amp, I would use a 4ga ground for the amp,

I would run an 8ga, [with a 100A ANL fuse and holder] directly to the high-pass amp, and an 8ga ground.

It gets rid of the distribution block and it's fuses and all those connections, it's like a f*#king big resistor.

I would "beef up", [add to] the batt. to chassis ground with at least a 4ga, 2ga would be better.

I you install a cap, install it on the sub amps power, [4ga] cable as close to the sub amp as possible and ground cap at same place as sub amp is grounded.

Spend the extra few $$ on proper size ring terminals, [both gauge size and stud size] then solder every one of them to the cables.

BTW if you want real good power cable, [better then 90% of the "car audio" wiring sold, and as good as the other 10%] go to your local welding supply store and get arc welding cable at 1/2 or less the price of "car audio" cable.
The same goes for the ring terminals, [Brazed Lug Rings] Pico makes pretty good ones... http://www.picocanada.com/catalogue/4005-4713.asp probably 1/3 the price of the "car audio" GOLD plated ones. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It gets rid of the distribution block and it's fuses and all those connections, it's like a f*#king big resistor.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would beg to differ. The resistance of a distribution block is negligible when you consider that a poorly crimped ring terminal on the battery will offer more resistance than a block ever will.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I would beg to differ. The resistance of a distribution block is negligible when you consider that a poorly crimped ring terminal on the battery will offer more resistance than a block ever will.</TD></TR></TABLE> Not so much the black as the glass fuses they use, and I agree a poor crimp would have more resistance, but then I said "solder everything.

Let me ask you this, is there less resistance in a cable going directly to amp, [assuming its the proper cable for the application] without any connections or one that has a distribution block in it, and how many more connections are there when using a distribution blocks? I count at least 7, and the only 2 that are soldered are the 2 inside the fuse, [fuse filament soldered to end caps] and they can be pretty crappy. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Not so much the black as the glass fuses they use, and I agree a poor crimp would have more resistance, but then I said "solder everything.

Let me ask you this, is there less resistance in a cable going directly to amp, [assuming its the proper cable for the application] without any connections or one that has a distribution block in it, and how many more connections are there when using a distribution blocks? I count at least 7, and the only 2 that are soldered are the 2 inside the fuse, [fuse filament soldered to end caps] and they can be pretty crappy. 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

any logical person would accept that there is more resistance with more connections, this goes with out saying.

the question should be - does that extra resistance make a difference? Will you see a large voltage drop b/c of it - if the voltage drop is on the order of 0.01V or so, who cares......of course, as your current demands go up, this becomes more important.

V=IR

or

ΔV/I = ΔR

So you can do the math on what kind of voltage drop you consider acceptable given your current demands.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ΔV/I = ΔR

So you can do the math on what kind of voltage drop you consider acceptable given your current demands.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I will add that if your equipment uses regulated supplies the ΔV is even less of an issue.

My concern would be to make sure the wire can carry the load and thats it.

Which means the R in the wire is all that matters. As this is what will cause the wire to get hot. I^2*R = the heat dissapated by the wire.


Modified by nsxxtreme at 11:33 AM 5/26/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the question should be - does that extra resistance make a difference? Will you see a large voltage drop b/c of it - if the voltage drop is on the order of 0.01V or so, who cares......of course, as your current demands go up, this becomes more important.

V=IR

or

ΔV/I = ΔR

So you can do the math on what kind of voltage drop you consider acceptable given your current demands.</TD></TR></TABLE> I agree, but then not using a dist. block because of resistance is not the only reason I wouldn't use one between a sub amp and any other amp(S) but because of the "electricity takes the coarse of least resistance" rule, I have found over the years that when a block is used the problem of current "loss", [when sub amp "hits"] to the high-pass amp is much more noticeable then when separate power cables are run for the sub amp and the high-pass amp(s), [I have no problem with using a block to dist. power to multiply high-pass amps and other components.

It has worked very well in solving problems of distorting high-pass, [when subs hit hard] over the years. So I recommend to anyone that has a problem with high-pass to first try running the separate power leads, in fact at our shop we have some fused power cable leads made up so we can do a quick connection to the batt. in through a window, over the seats directly to the high-pass amp, it is a very effective demo because most people say they can tell the diff. right away and have us run a power cable for the high-pass amp and get rid of the dist. block.

If it works, why not do it? 94

 

woah woah - hold on for a second.

You are telling me that if you do a fused distro block (that is properly sized) will sound different then two individually fused leads?

I'm not so sure I buy that...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If it works, why not do it? 94

</TD></TR></TABLE>
If I understand your statement correctly your problem is not the distribution block. When you connect the mid amp up to the sub amp with a distribution block the two amps share the voltage drop across the single power wire. The sub amp causeing the largest drop.

Runing two seperate wires will reduce the voltage drop seen by the mid amp because there is less of an IR drop across that wire. The same thing can be accomplished by increasing the gauge of the wire. You reduce the R in the wire so the voltage drop across the wire will be reduced as well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">woah woah - hold on for a second.

You are telling me that if you do a fused distro block (that is properly sized) will sound different then two individually fused leads?

I'm not so sure I buy that...</TD></TR></TABLE> gidyup gidyup, buy it or not, it has worked for me for years, and as I said if it works, why not.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If I understand your statement correctly your problem is not the distribution block. When you connect the mid amp up to the sub amp with a distribution block the two amps share the voltage drop across the single power wire. The sub amp causeing the largest drop.

Runing two seperate wires will reduce the voltage drop seen by the mid amp because there is less of an IR drop across that wire. The same thing can be accomplished by increasing the gauge of the wire. You reduce the R in the wire so the voltage drop across the wire will be reduced as well.</TD></TR></TABLE> You would think so, and so did I, in the beginning, [years ago] when we had a problem with an Alpine system in an Alpine demo car, everything was Alpine, including the power cable and distribution block, the cable was 4ga with a 150A ceramic fuse and the block held BLF glass fuses, and we did exactly what you recommend upped the cable size to 2ga as per Alpine tech support, and it did make a diff. but the problem was still there, [high-pass distorting when bass hit hard] we installed a 150A alt. no diff., and it was Alpine tech support that recommended that we run a separate power cable for the 4ch high-pass amp, the rest is history, been doing it ever since, and as I said it is the first thing we try when someone comes in with that kind of problem, [after checking the most common type problems, grounds and connections, metering the voltage drop and so on] again, if it works, I use it. I would recommend anybody with that problem to try it. it sure can't hurt. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I would recommend anybody with that problem to try it. it sure can't hurt. 94</TD></TR></TABLE>
What your saying isn't completely untrue its your explanation of "why" is what needs work. It has almost nothing to do with the distribution block.

You are always going to have large current draw through the subwoofer amplifier power wire. And there will always be some resistance through the power wire, no matter how big the wire is. I*R= voltage drop, the resistance through the wire and the current draw is what causes the voltage drop.

By adding a second wire straight to the battery you provide a second current path that is independent from the subwoofer amplifier. The only advantage you gain is you will not see as much of a voltage loss from the wire. If it causes the voltage to drop at the battery then both amplifiers will see the loss. 100A*.001(guestimate wire resistance)= 1V loss.

This may effect unregulated supplies. The power supplies in amplifiers are switching. They take 12V and boost it to 30V. In a regulated supply the input voltage can vary from approx 10 to 18V with no change on the output voltage of 30V. Unregulated supplies on the other hand there ouput is dependent on input voltage. So these types of amplifiers would be sensitive to a change in voltage. I have never seem a system that pulls enough current to cause distortion on the output. You would have to be using an unregulated amp and be pulling some serious current 100+ amps to cause a noticable difference.


In an unstable environment like a car I dont know why anyone would choose to use unregulated supplies.




Modified by nsxxtreme at 10:13 AM 5/27/2006