I was finishing up installing my RM springs and retainers and i got the intake cam in and i noticed i didnt have it pointing up. So i grabbed my channel locks and continued to clock it over felt a little resistance and thought it was the springs pushin back. I get it straight up and then i think about someone saying this was an interference motor. Im like o ****. Well i make sure my tension is all the way loose on my followers and i plug in my air compresser into piston # 4 it will not hold air like it did before. so i just go ahead and put it back together and time it up and start it. I have to give it gas to idle it and it stalls when i drive it unless i keep my lights on. Ive noticed too if i pull a vac line it will idle fine. Thats the only thing i can think of that would be my problem. The car runs fine and has good power. Only thing i can do now would be to get compression test to see if that is indeed what it is. Also the fast idle screw is all the way out so it should be idleing really high instead of 600 . Can someone please help me i just cant see how i couldve bent a valve by hand.

 

i doubt that you bent a valve like that, it would have pushed the piston down before it bent....unless it was close to TDC, bc its tougher to move there....

compression test it then get back to us....it could just be the cams making it idle rough....

 

Is are your cam gears off a tooth maybe? If the cylinder won't hold air with the valves closed (TDC) then there is something wrong. Good luck and let us know how it goes...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgags7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i doubt that you bent a valve like that, it would have pushed the piston down before it bent....unless it was close to TDC, bc its tougher to move there....

compression test it then get back to us....it could just be the cams making it idle rough....</TD></TR></TABLE>well i had #1 piston ATDC so that would make 4 pretty close huh?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by flyrod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is are your cam gears off a tooth maybe? If the cylinder won't hold air with the valves closed (TDC) then there is something wrong. Good luck and let us know how it goes...</TD></TR></TABLE>

no they are both insync . Ill post compression soon as i can get a hold of a tester

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pullig &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i had #1 piston ATDC so that would make 4 pretty close huh?</TD></TR></TABLE>

at TDC you mean?? ATDC means after tdc....anyways....1&4 are identical on the crank, so yes, it would have been at TDC....which makes me wonder....

but that is so ridiculous sounding, i will be astounded if you bent a valve.....on a good note, it should be easy to get one for probably free....if i still had my h23 head i would give you one....wait i think i do.....hmmm...ill have to look, pm me when if you find out you need something....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pullig &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i had #1 piston ATDC so that would make 4 pretty close huh?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No. Turn the crank 360 degrees to get #4 at TDC on its compression stroke.

 

flyrod, hes just saying physically where the pistons were, not what stroke they were on.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgags7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">flyrod, hes just saying physically where the pistons were, not what stroke they were on.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah thats exactly what im saying sorry i was meanin at TDC

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgags7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

at TDC you mean?? ATDC means after tdc....anyways....1&4 are identical on the crank, so yes, it would have been at TDC....which makes me wonder....

but that is so ridiculous sounding, i will be astounded if you bent a valve.....on a good note, it should be easy to get one for probably free....if i still had my h23 head i would give you one....wait i think i do.....hmmm...ill have to look, pm me when if you find out you need something....</TD></TR></TABLE>

well if i ended up bending a valve i have a pretty good idea that its going to be one of the intake on #4 or probably both But i did check #1 one and it held air like normally . This **** is so annoying problems after problems for me. First time i put these cams in i had a problem with valve stems getting mashed and now this. If i would have known i was going to have all these problems i would have saved my 500 bucks def. not worth all this headache.
thanks for the help guys hopefully ill get this resolved soon. So how hard is it to pull the head ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pullig &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yeah thats exactly what im saying sorry i was meanin at TDC </TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh, I thought you were saying that you put #1 at TDC (on compression) and put air in through the spark plug hole to test for leaks, then did the same for #4 without turning the crank another turn. That would have been an easy explanation of why #4 was leaking... Good luck, I hope you get it figured out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by flyrod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Oh, I thought you were saying that you put #1 at TDC (on compression) and put air in through the spark plug hole to test for leaks, then did the same for #4 without turning the crank another turn. That would have been an easy explanation of why #4 was leaking... Good luck, I hope you get it figured out.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think he was saying that he was on TDC on #1 and checked #4 with #1 at TDC... At least I think...

You do have to turn the crank so that #4 is at TDC... not just #1...

I personally don't think you bent a valve... not turning by hand... but it is possible if they were in really shitty condition I spose...

WHich vacuum line are you pulling that makes it idle fine? and when you say idle fine... no surges? at 700ish rpm?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZigenBallz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think he was saying that he was on TDC on #1 and checked #4 with #1 at TDC... At least I think...

You do have to turn the crank so that #4 is at TDC... not just #1...

I personally don't think you bent a valve... not turning by hand... but it is possible if they were in really shitty condition I spose...

WHich vacuum line are you pulling that makes it idle fine? and when you say idle fine... no surges? at 700ish rpm?</TD></TR></TABLE>


Well the car will not idle at all if cold i have to give it gas to warm it up. After a few minutes i can let off the gas and it seems to idle very very low 600 ish. If i go drive it without the lights on it stalls everytime i put the clutch in. If i put on the headlights it wont stall and when its idling really low i can pull a vac line it doesnt matter which one and it idles to around 700-800. The fast idle screw is adjusted all the way out. It just seems like it isnt getting any air to idle.

 

# 1 cylinder was at TDC when i turned over the intake cam. i did put # 4 at TDC and check if it would hold pressure and it did not but i havent done so since i have cranked it i will be trying to get a compression check tomorrow and ill try to see if it will hold pressure.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pullig &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Well the car will not idle at all if cold i have to give it gas to warm it up. After a few minutes i can let off the gas and it seems to idle very very low 600 ish. If i go drive it without the lights on it stalls everytime i put the clutch in. If i put on the headlights it wont stall and when its idling really low i can pull a vac line it doesnt matter which one and it idles to around 700-800. The fast idle screw is adjusted all the way out. It just seems like it isnt getting any air to idle. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you checked your FITV and IACV? maybe try cleaning them out and double checking your vac hose routing and check for hose leaks...

My 272 only stalled out every now and then coming to a stop with hard braking... sucking all the vac out I guess...

Are you sure your cam timing is correct? might wanna double check that also...

curious to see the results of the comp check... fingers crossed for you man.

 

Compression results are 1-4 200,190,210,150 i guess that means i did bend the valve. What would be the best thing to do? Pull the head and take it to a machine shop and get those valves replaced? And is there any special things to do when reinstalling the head besides a new head gasket? like copper spray . Would getting a thinner headgasket be worth it or just stick with OEM.

 

yea soudns liek something is definately wrong id pull the head and get it to a shop asap but one thing you can do to be sure when you get the head flip it over so it lays flat ith the cumbustion chanber and valve faces showing and pour some atf ontop untill it pools up in the chamber and thatll tell ya which valves are leaking cusz itll run out the ports on the valves that arent sealing correctly.

 

bump

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pullig &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Compression results are 1-4 200,190,210,150 i guess that means i did bend the valve. What would be the best thing to do? Pull the head and take it to a machine shop and get those valves replaced? And is there any special things to do when reinstalling the head besides a new head gasket? like copper spray . Would getting a thinner headgasket be worth it or just stick with OEM. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Damn that does suck...

Did you try pouring a little oil into #4 and redoing the test?

Since I'm in the same boat as you right now... I'd say the only real options are pulling the head and have the valves replaced or probably a valve job...

or source a new head...

SOrry about the bad news man... I really do feel your pain though...

 

since you have an air compressor and a compression tester, put the cylinder you think has a bent valve at top dead center on its compression stroke so the valves should be closed.

Hookup your compressor to the line on your compresson testor so you can pressurize the cylinder (you might need a $2 adaptor from a hardware store) and listen at the intake, exhaust, and if you have a stethescope at the dipstick area (if the leak is bad you'll hear it without the 'scope). You'll hear the hiss from the air leak in the intake or exhaust if its a valve, and from the crankcase if its a ring issue. If its a headgasket problem, you'll start seeing bubbles in your coolant, or you might also hear the hiss from the crankcase.
Good luck.
edit:more than likely you're going to have to pull the head anyway, but the above stuff might give you a better idea of what to look for. Peace out.


Modified by Niles at 1:11 PM 2/23/2006

 

How much is a machine shop usually charge to check out the whole head and clean it up and replace the 2 intake valves on 4. I called a shop this morning to see about them pulling the head and fixing it. They wanted 1000 bucks that seemed way high to me. So im pulling the head myself.

 

Depending on how much they have to disassemble and reassemble...

About 300 for a good 3 angle valve job and cleaning...

pull the head yourself... all you need is a manual, a 1/2" drive impact socket and a 24" breaker bar... oh and a headgasket and maybe a timing belt for reinstallation...

 

head is off and will be off to the shop tomorrow ......... It wasnt too bad to pull alot easier than i thought

 

Well the machine shop called today said i had no bent valves. They said there was a ton of carbon buildup, which could have got in the valve guides and could have caused the valve to stick. They are charging me 175. I guess thats good for disassembly and cleaning. I hope thats all it is and now i can get it back together and it will run strong.

 

awesome... good luck to you man...