I am curious as to what is legal for manifold situations in the H1 class for Honda Challenge. The rules state that the manifold and TB must be factory honda parts and porting is only allowed up to 1" into the ports and only as large as gasket matching. Now what if you were to cut the flange and weld on a new on to put a "factory" Type-R manifold onto a GSR head? What about porting the TB and its internal but still staying within the 1" limit? Is this legal? I did not notice anything against these type of things but the TB stuff is def. a stretch.

 

If it doesn't explicitly state that you can, you canNOT.

1/2 GSR maifold + 1/2 ITR manifold does not equal an OEM manifold.

AFAIK, the TB cannot be ported at all (only the manifold and head).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kndaqikEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I did not notice anything against these type of things but the TB stuff is def. a stretch. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's not a "stretch" at all. It's illegal. The intake manifold rules are very clearly stated in the rulebook, which you have apparently read.

You need to read the rules with the explicit goal of comprehending them - not of finding loopholes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's not a "stretch" at all. It's illegal. The intake manifold rules are very clearly stated in the rulebook, which you have apparently read.

You need to read the rules with the explicit goal of comprehending them - not of finding loopholes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dude, would it kill you not to be rude to every person who asks questions about possibly joining honda challenge? You aren't exactly giving the impression of a friendly group to race with....

 

?

 

yeah, that could work too. LOL!

 

Not trying to start a flame war, but isn't it the intention of every sanctioned race class in the world to stretch the rules to the furthest limits that you can in order to have even the absolute slightest advantage? I might be new to autocross but I am pretty sure that in every form of racing you have to do whatever you can to get an edge period. These were just some thoughts that I had. No big deal. I guess I will have to run a completely different cyl. head to run H1 class.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kndaqikEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not trying to start a flame war, but isn't it the intention of every sanctioned race class in the world to stretch the rules to the furthest limits that you can in order to have even the absolute slightest advantage? I might be new to autocross but I am pretty sure that in every form of racing you have to do whatever you can to get an edge period. These were just some thoughts that I had. No big deal. I guess I will have to run a completely different cyl. head to run H1 class. </TD></TR></TABLE>

just a suggestion, dont take this the wrong way

instead of trying to gain a 2hp edge by finding loopholes in the rulebook how about spending more time learning to drive? we arent professional race car drivers and we all make mistakes. the better driver wins 95% of the time over a car with more power.

 

Your right you can run that manifold... just hope someone doesnt notice it and call you on it in the tech line. (Also if your planning on "pushing the edge" aka breaking the rules, you might not want to come on a site and tell everyone youll be racing against your plans on cheating)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> - not of finding loopholes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's how some of the best race teams are run, they expliot loops holes, or find new ways to cheat without being caught.

Like extra fuel in the rollcage, cheater nitrous system, making an slightly oval restrictor on an intake rather than round....blah...blah...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Marauder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Like extra fuel in the rollcage, cheater nitrous system, making an slightly oval restrictor on an intake rather than round....blah...blah...</TD></TR></TABLE>

There's a difference between maximizing the ruleset and cheating. Those sound like cheating..

 

extra fuel in the rollcage sounds deadly to me. now frezing fuel to put an extra galon in it.... thats ok.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Those sound like cheating.. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Marauder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
cheater nitrous system</TD></TR></TABLE>

What tipped you off, RJ?

 

I have no intentions of cheating at all, I was just curious as to whether or not that could still be considered factory as it would be made of entirely factory parts. Never mind how retarded the ? was. I also say that yes loopholes ARE there for exploitation. If you take, dare I say it "NASCAR" , for example, 70 cars that are exactly the same and not much necessary in the skills department, the loopholes are crucial to a win.
Anywho, my car is very multi-functional as a Drag racing,Daily driving(not so much of this soon), and soon to be auto-x type vehicle. I am going to be normally running ITB's and was just looking for a "GOOD" intake setup to meet the specs of the H1 class. You guys are so crazy.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kndaqikEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> dare I say it "NASCAR" , for example, 70 cars that are exactly the same and not much necessary in the skills department </TD></TR></TABLE>

That is one of the most ignorant comments Ive read... you obvisouly have never been involved in any high levels of racing. For you to say that skills are not necessary. I've been there, worked with top teams, and I wish I had the "skills" that the chiefs, engineers, and engine builders had on those teams

 

I agree.

However, back to the original question. The rules seem very clear
Section 9.3.1(f): "Throttle Bodies and Intake Manifolds are not considered part of the cylinder head and must be unmodified OEM Honda parts. Port matching is allowed, but cannot be machined beyone one inch into the intake manifold."

Section 9.3.1(g): "Items (such as throttle bodies and intake manifolds) that attach to the cylinder head may be re-drilled for fitment purposes ONLY. Alteration of air, fuel, and/or coolant passages is not permitted. Fitment modifications that alter air, fuel, and/or coolant passages as a side effect will be deemed illegal."

I don't see how anyone could twist those rules around to allow the cutting and welding of flanges onto a different intake manifold, even if both pieces are Honda OEM parts.

I'd think you might be able to port match the intake manifold where the throttle body mounts, but you can't touch the throttle body itself. Maybe this needs to be clarified?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MarkosMotorsports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That is one of the most ignorant comments Ive read... you obvisouly have never been involved in any high levels of racing. For you to say that skills are not necessary. I've been there, worked with top teams, and I wish I had the "skills" that the chiefs, engineers, and engine builders had on those teams</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

First tp markos, I am talking about driver skills in my previous statement, not the skills of their pit crew or engine builders. The engine builders who ALSO stretch their rules to the furthest reaches of what could possibly be almost considered legal to get the winning edge, whether it be a slightly larger fuel line setup to carry just enough extra fuel to keep them on the track for a few extra laps to gain position or other similar situations where they "maximize the ruleset".

I do say that now after reading the rules again I did forget about the, no alterations of the air passage, line so yes right there says no cuutting flanges but redrilling the flange for certain bolt patterns is legal. Also from those few lines it would appear that you could port the TB end of the mani.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'd think you might be able to port match the intake manifold where the throttle body mounts, but you can't touch the throttle body itself. Maybe this needs to be clarified?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It does'nt need to be clarified any more than this. If you want to run a 62mm JDM R TB on a b16 you can and port an extra 2mm into the IM for 1 inch which is enough

Or even step up to the new RSX 70mm tb and port accordingly.

Basically if your going b series it's cheaper to start with a R motor than dump all the parts onto a b16 or GSR.

 

No, my concern is that I have a GSR head on an R bottom. I would like a nice intake setup that is good on power(not a bone stock GSR mani.)but there is no such thing. I thought I would get creative and overlooked a few things. Now has anyone seen positve results in drilling an R mani. to fit the GSR bolt pattern?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kndaqikEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, my concern is that I have a GSR head on an R bottom. I would like a nice intake setup that is good on power(not a bone stock GSR mani.)but there is no such thing. I thought I would get creative and overlooked a few things. Now has anyone seen positve results in drilling an R mani. to fit the GSR bolt pattern? </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's not a good idea.

Your best bet is just to live with the stock manifold or sell the GSR head. You'll probably be able to get a B16 head for less than you sell the GSR one for.

 

Thats a good idea, does anyone want to trade me my P&P, 5 angle VJ, polished CC, S2S2 cam aem cam gear GSR head for their B16 with similar mods except with BC4 cams?