TM_EM1

so basically these are pointless?

there's a lot of commentary from people who don't own these though.

Driven

I don't own a Vortec Cyclone, yet know it's useless.

Ownership of the product doesn't make you an engineer.

TM_EM1

your post was very helpful and brought closure to my dilemma. Thank You.


anyway, I've been looking on a few other car forums and people are noticing a difference. 250 is a lot to spend though and none of the current owners seem to use the product on a road course.

DC Dan

I can't believe people are complaining hardcore about spending 130 on blox or 270 something on spoon collars. It's also hysterical that somebody said they can hear when the subframe shifts, some race parts are made for durability so even if it doesn't affect drivability this doesn't mean that it isn't a great product. Imagine running for more than a few hours on track and not worrying about the subframe shifting and misaligning the front end just because you decided to spend a small amount of money.

Driven

Glad I could help.

Bullet point number 2, reread this thread.

njn63

If that was a real problem on a subframe that is properly torqued, it'd be a great investment. Mark your subframe before a track day and check it after.

TM_EM1

I think the spoon/blox collar kit is front only. If you go to Rigid Collar direct you will see they have 2 different kits:

http://www.rigidcollar.com/index.php...rer/honda.html

So it adds up. But yea, it seems like alot of people are complaining mostly because of the price. Alot of other platforms are using these and reporting positive results. Some are even stating the results are even more noticeable on older cars.

There are good pictures in this link showing install and effects:
http://www.speedhunters.com/2011/06/...s_to_the_gt_r/

Reading this thread and others in different forums, it does appear the wise first option would be to retorque the bolts and mark them to record any movement after a track day. Of course we can all agree this is last on the to-do list after all the major suspension upgrades including tires.

this thread has a vibe of "you are a complete idiot if you buy this" which in my opinion is disingenuous.

johnjw

yeah buy these, you'll pick up like 3 seconds...

Davidss

There is no need to do this. If you torque the bolts even close to properly nothing is going to move.

Any "seat of the pants" difference people notice from these is entirely placebo. But if you want to waste your money go ahead.

chrisb

Let me erase the whole "vibe" thing and state it more clearly.

******* You are a complete ******* idiot if you buy this. ********

I have dozens of high profile drag race customers running my spherical front LCAs and UCAs and launching on slicks at 1.46 or lower 60' times (Miller ran a a sub 1.4 60' time). I am a road racer at heart and have even more road racers on my stuff. But the loads that these chassis see when launching with 1000+WHP on slicks, on well prepared tracks (with no traction bars) is tremendous. Nothing is moving around man! I promise you. We are talking about mid to high 5 figure builds here. They would not blink about spending the money if some stupid $200 spacer helped. It doesn't. Spend your money if you want. A fool and his money are soon parted. I could crank my CNC lathe up tomorrow and turn these stupid *** spacers for you at a fraction of the cost. But then I would be a scum bag taking your money. But whatever, go buy the **** and I am sure your butt G meter will tell you it worked. If you are happy that is all that matters. Add some squash air freshener too. No one here is trying to bust your *****. We are trying to save you money. I don't know what else we can say to you.

VTECIntegra9

Tell us how you really feel, chris!

BTW I agree as I had mentioned a while ago when this thread wasn't old... If they're loose you may have bigger issues than a ricer part you just have to have because someone said racecar...

DC Dan

So going by your guys theory if it didn't come from Honda we shouldn't use any products. Wider tires, bigger brakes, etc. lets all go back to oem because they say so.

njn63

The parts you just listed are solutions to REAL problems. I'm still in the camp that the rigid collars are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

DC Dan

Just an example of being closed minded. I think most of you guys are just extremely mad that Spoon makes quality products but simply overprice them. It's thinking like that which causes hatred towards a company no matter what they engineer/produce. Have fun listening to every word from someone you don't even know, I'll stick to building badass vehicles.

Xian

Errrr... minor tweak there.

I'm probably a little (ok, a LOT) more mercenary than Chris but I say to build what sells. If folks will shell out the coin, then let them. Since it's an existing product, you don't need to make claims as to their efficacy... "Spoon sells essentially the same product and claims XYZ benefits." I'd sell them on ebay with a different company name to keep from dilluting your existing brand image though...

As to the question of what these do? Meh. I have a hard time believing that the fix a legitimate problem. As others have pointed out, mark your existing subframe, run a track day/event, and examine. I'd be shocked to see any movement assuming everything was torqued properly in the first place.

Driven

Here's another example of being closed-minded...

When people tell you these don't work, then offer several examples of where they wouldn't fix an issue that doesn't exist. These people who provide this advice come from racing backgrounds, engineering backgrounds, have tested race cars and have a ton of experience dealing with things like this... Yet you still feel the need to dispute it.

That is far more closed-minded than simply shooting down a product because it doesn't fix anything.

BTW, before you keep foaming at the mouth about us being haters, bashers, and/or closed-minded individuals... do this and let me know your results, cause I know mine:

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=38

I just changed the oil on my s2000 yesterday, re-examined my subframe bolts, guess what, still no movement. But I did notice my alignment is slightly off now from me hitting the curbs at various tracks.

TM_EM1

Ok, no movement. Got it. What about the "centering" of the subframe with these?

I think I'll call up West End Alignment and ask for their opinion.

TM_EM1

OK, just got off the phone with socal H-T favorite, West End. He said he only installed them on one car and didn't hear back from them. He doesn't use them on his cars but did note that the collars minimize the slop between the bolt and subframe.

So for the price, yea...i'll pass.

Xian

:lol: So, why don't you discount his experience since he's only installed one set and has zero feedback?

smokin rubber

that slop is something you can use to your advantage to get a better alignment, loosen bolts on the alignment rack tweak and tighten.

TM_EM1

he does alignments for a living. I doubt anyone here does...at least not on his level of expertise.

So...given that caveat, the fact that he does not feel the need to add them to his own cars and by his tone on the phone...it's clear he does not feel they are necessary.

Also, like smoking rubber mentioned, I read a few times from various sources that the slop is useful with alignments.

Greyout

just sayin...

Davidss

I think www.kalecoauto.com sells rigid collars.

njn63

I'm skeptical, not closed minded. Big difference.
I'm not sure centering is even an ideal scenario in 100% of cases. Maybe some of the people with more alignment experience than me can chime in but I can't imagine a stamped steel subframe being perfect side to side.

donut.

How many seconds do spoon wiper blades shave