FlewByU352

The **** did you say to me?! When did you tell me to read the posts? The alignment theory is null. Why? Because my alignment was perfect, I replaced the tie rods at night, did the rigid collars in the morning and got it re-aligned in the afternoon. I installed them laughing and saying these are more than likely worthless but if I don't install them they are taking up shelf space. I couldn't be any more wrong about them doing nothing.

DC Dan

It wasn't directed towards you... I am on your side with this!

turbohatchBnuts

I think Im going to buy some just for the haters out there!

mattbatson

this kinda summed it up for me, lol

aw614

complete opposite in responses to what I read on a vw forum with these rigid collars. But in the case of the mk5/mk6 vw's, the rigid collars worked and fixed the subframe shifting and clunking noises on higher mileage cars and kept alignment and it was a known problem that vw did release patch work fixes with subframe washers and revised stretched bolts. But then again this was vw and they are known for all these issues lol.

mattbatson

Now if only those collars can fix the CEL

Mr. Foully

I bought the Blox but have yet to install them.

I bought them to achieve better repeatability and accuracy during subframe reattachment. I would like to avoid having to have the car re-alligned after having the trans or clutch out.

I do not believe that etching around the bolts is close enough or can't be improved upon.

Beyond that, they could in theory prevent or diminish flex between the subframe and body. Slight, temporary movement, not enough to show on the bolt/subframe interface.

Caoboy

I wonder, if any improvement is seen, is because the people who install these collars, and RETORQUED their bolts, noticed the improvement, because their bolts were not torqued properly to begin with.

Sloppy loose torqued bolts -> install collars -> retorque bolts to spec= improvment noticed.

Like everybody else is saying, it's better to check the torque specs on the subframe bolts, and possibly save a lot of money. If the bolts had already been up to spec, and the collars showed improvement, then it could said they do create a noticeable difference.

aw614

At the same time though I can see the benefits of using the subframe collars making it easier to center the subframe to ensure accurate caster/camber settings.

mattbatson

I don't think that is an issue with our hondas

Driven

Funny you mentioned that because, when you drop the gearbox out of a S2000, you must lower the subframe in order to remove the upper bolts.

And since I recently had to do this, I marked all the bolts I needed to loosen, swapped out my clutch, and retorqued the subframe bolts.

I made sure to line everything up as marked, then got an alignment... just in case.
and zero change in alignment. None. Exactly the same.

So, a little preparation and proper installation, these collars become, well, a $200 waste of money.

10cjennings

iTrader: (1)

This thread gives me the lulz, dunno how I didn't read it earlier.

DicerYuri

i have installed these on my 92 hatch si. i got a good deal on them, and didnt plan on dropping my subframe ever again since i had it powercoated and did a manual rack swap, i figured it would be the only time id have to install them so heck why not, and i guess the only way i can describe how it feels is similar to installing stiffer engine mounts, more connected more feed back. and it did make the install a sinch. idk alot of people throw away money into the car hobby i guess i dont understand why every one has to flame each other, i can have fun going fast on the highway and not pay to track my car. lol i do track my car but i mean the point is the same, i feel more connected to my car, and if its from a true mechanical sense or if its because i put money into it, for me it doesnt matter i got my desired effect.

Davidss

Because this product is a complete scam. So it's really about trying to prevent others from getting ripped off.

mattbatson

^this

I have a cold air turbulator 12v fan I can sell anyone who wants an easy 60hp gain....
not dyno proven, but for sure after spending the 200 bucks for it and installing it, you will feel the difference....

nice thing about "feeling" a difference is that it doesn't have to be quantifiable in any way

aw614

But there was a tsb from honda mentioning that some models the subframe may shift and it is possible to align it. I remember reading this thread before
https://honda-tech.com/forums/tech-misc-15/question-seasoned-certified-honda-technicians-2875808/

Xian

Errrr... yeah. You can loosen the bolts and shift the subframe in order to try and even up caster (since it's not otherwise adjustable). Why would you need to do this? Most likely because you clipped a curb/corner/pothole and bent something a little bit.

As to the original product... meh. If folks want to drop $$ on placebo parts, more power to 'em. It's their $$, their time, and their car. Just like the guy who spends a couple grand getting a mural painted onto the side of his van... it's not my thing but

Bet this guy has Rigid Collars installed:

mattbatson

as soon as I saw service advisor at a Honda dealer, my eyes kinda glazed over...

Yes, you can bend a subframe by wacking a curb or some such. I actually had to get a new one for my crx cause my alignment guy said he couldn't adjust the alignment into spec.

One thing I'm noticing is that the guys posting in favor of these collars have pretty low post counts and are most likely new.
They should do the wise thing and listen to the experienced guys on here and maybe learn a thing or two.

mrtoddy

How many differant makes has this promblem?

njn63

0

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

OMG Xian i was going to say Placebo to the poster who installed them and feels close to the earth, and his car by installing this POS and got a great deal on them too.

Xian

chrisb

I must admit though if you care about making money instead of making people faster then those Spoon guys are geniuses. On my CNC lathe which is a low production tool room type machine that is about $6-$8 part each including zinc plating. On a high end super speed lathe with a tool turret, bar feeder etc. like those are being run on they are like a $3 part maybe. It is genius. I wish mini-truckin would be cool again so all the stance and hard park idiots would go back to their roots.

DicerYuri

http://www.speedhunters.com/2011/06/...s_to_the_gt_r/

mattbatson

when you read at the end when they did the test drive after installation, you should immediately realize this is a fake.
This is nothing but a sales ad.
You have a pretty large tuner corporation making some 10 dollar collars, and selling them for a hell of a lot more, and now they are expanding over into all sorts of other makes/models...and they stand to make a hell of a lot of coin off this snake oil crap.

For them to say that they immediately feel a difference, and the car is more connected to the road, blah blah, etc...is to imply that BEFORE the collars are installed, the subframe is moving all over the place as you drive

which is complete bullshite

Mr d ricer, maybe, rather than taking the word of the people who are trying to sell you a product...you should instead look to see if people such as top flight autocrossers/road racers/etc are using the item. (and don't you think if anything will make a subframe shift, it would be 275 width hoosier A6's and way over a g cornering?)

These are people who will spend 3 or 4 grand on shocks alone...just to make the car a couple tenths of a second faster. They obsess over the smallest details in order to make the car better, and cost is not a factor.

don't you think that if such a simple item did SO VERY much, that it would be endorsed by the guys like this?

in the end, the old saying about a fool and his money has stood the test of time for the same reason people believe marketing hype like this.

They are the same people who believe you can buy a "performance chip" for your obd1 ecu Honda and make 60 hp.
There are many companies out there selling these chips for a reason.

People....err....fools...are buying them.
They are buying snake oil with the chips, and they are buying snake oil with these subframe washers.

Now that we are done beating this dead horse into the ground...can we just let this thread die a well deserved death?