oversteer problems
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From: Gardena, CA, USA
Re: oversteer problems (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.turnfast.com/</TD></TR></TABLE>
wow thats the most helpful you've been this whole 2 page thread thanks!
wow thats the most helpful you've been this whole 2 page thread thanks!
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: oversteer problems (yakitori)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakitori »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
well when my car oversteered the back end almost got in front of the front end and I slided twords the guard rail as if I was in reverse i hit the brakes then I stopped pretty quickly since I wasn't going very fast to begin with. and as I've mentioned before I wasn't on the gas at all going down hill I simply let it coast down doing about 30-40mph</TD></TR></TABLE>
ok, let's assume the speed limit was 35, and you're doing around 40mph. You are at or close to the speed limit for the road. The fact that you lost control at/close to the posted speed limit shows there is something really wrong here.
Assuming that you are correct in your statement about your speed and assuming that the ground was dry then I would say you have tires on your car that are not safe to be driving on.
Regardless of how fast you were traveling, it is clear that the oversteer was unexpected which indicates you do not know the limit of your car's capabilities and that lesson is best learned on a track or autocross course.
well when my car oversteered the back end almost got in front of the front end and I slided twords the guard rail as if I was in reverse i hit the brakes then I stopped pretty quickly since I wasn't going very fast to begin with. and as I've mentioned before I wasn't on the gas at all going down hill I simply let it coast down doing about 30-40mph</TD></TR></TABLE>
ok, let's assume the speed limit was 35, and you're doing around 40mph. You are at or close to the speed limit for the road. The fact that you lost control at/close to the posted speed limit shows there is something really wrong here.
Assuming that you are correct in your statement about your speed and assuming that the ground was dry then I would say you have tires on your car that are not safe to be driving on.
Regardless of how fast you were traveling, it is clear that the oversteer was unexpected which indicates you do not know the limit of your car's capabilities and that lesson is best learned on a track or autocross course.
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From: RVA FLA VIR
Re: oversteer problems (EM1b18cR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EM1b18cR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats great that Chad races in Honda Challenge. It only takes license and money, but then again I could be wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE>
NASA/ECHC roadracing requires significant track experience before licensing. As in, you can't get comp licensed if you don't know the difference between oversteer and understeer. Racers learn things about car control (in a competition scenario, where there really is no "line" sometimes) that those of us doing track schools can never duplicate. Long story short? Chad knows his chit
But I could be wrong LOL,
Jon
NASA/ECHC roadracing requires significant track experience before licensing. As in, you can't get comp licensed if you don't know the difference between oversteer and understeer. Racers learn things about car control (in a competition scenario, where there really is no "line" sometimes) that those of us doing track schools can never duplicate. Long story short? Chad knows his chit
But I could be wrong LOL,
Jon
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From: Browns Summit, NC, USA
Re: oversteer problems (EM1b18cR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EM1b18cR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I
I could bet my life on it that he's a way more experienced driver than you are.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
well sire.....do i get to choose your death?? because if this clown has more than 400,000 street miles and close to 5,000 miles ON THE TRACK... then he does not have more driving experience than me.....ohh that's not including the OVER 500 drag passes that i remember....
and yes i do drive CANYON ROADS....but i know the limit of my car....and my skill
so how do you choose to die????
I could bet my life on it that he's a way more experienced driver than you are.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
well sire.....do i get to choose your death?? because if this clown has more than 400,000 street miles and close to 5,000 miles ON THE TRACK... then he does not have more driving experience than me.....ohh that's not including the OVER 500 drag passes that i remember....
and yes i do drive CANYON ROADS....but i know the limit of my car....and my skill
so how do you choose to die????
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: oversteer problems (getfast)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by getfast »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Chad knows his chit </TD></TR></TABLE>
Chad for moderator!
</TD></TR></TABLE>Chad for moderator!
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From: Browns Summit, NC, USA
Re: oversteer problems (chad)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
well sire.....do i get to choose your death?? because if this clown has more than 400,000 street miles and close to 5,000 miles ON THE TRACK... then he does not have more driving experience than me.....ohh that's not including the OVER 500 drag passes that i remember....
and yes i do drive CANYON ROADS....but i know the limit of my car....and my skill
so how do you choose to die????
</TD></TR></TABLE>
well sire.....do i get to choose your death?? because if this clown has more than 400,000 street miles and close to 5,000 miles ON THE TRACK... then he does not have more driving experience than me.....ohh that's not including the OVER 500 drag passes that i remember....
and yes i do drive CANYON ROADS....but i know the limit of my car....and my skill
so how do you choose to die????
</TD></TR></TABLE>
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From: Gainesville, FL
Re: oversteer problems (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Chad for moderator!</TD></TR></TABLE>
****...anybody for moderator...
Chad for moderator!</TD></TR></TABLE>
****...anybody for moderator...
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From: Jetsetter
Re: oversteer problems (yakitori)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakitori »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have a problem with way too much oversteer. could it be my style of driving? am I connering incorrectly? I have a 1995 si stock front sway bar eg6 rear 15mm sway bar koni shocks tanabe super down precedeo springs falken azenis 14"
almost flew off the mountain going down hill sliding twords the edge sideways
I asked for driving techniques and car set ups I didn't blame my car I did call it MY oversteer problem not MY CAR'S oversteer problem </TD></TR></TABLE>
Looking at your set-up, you do not have a problem with oversteer. I'm trying to provide constructive criticism here - I believe it is your driving style.
One thing to check is your alignment. If you have a rear wheel out of whack, like with a lot of toe out, that will contribute to your problem. Also check your tire pressures.
Couple of driving tips.
1)Learn the limit of your car on the tires that you run
2)Respect that limit
3)Do your braking in a straight line
4)Don't brake or lift the throttle after you have turned in
5)Do your braking in a straight line.... oh I mentioned that already.
6)Go to an HPDE to learn all of the above.
I have a problem with way too much oversteer. could it be my style of driving? am I connering incorrectly? I have a 1995 si stock front sway bar eg6 rear 15mm sway bar koni shocks tanabe super down precedeo springs falken azenis 14"
almost flew off the mountain going down hill sliding twords the edge sideways
I asked for driving techniques and car set ups I didn't blame my car I did call it MY oversteer problem not MY CAR'S oversteer problem
</TD></TR></TABLE>Looking at your set-up, you do not have a problem with oversteer. I'm trying to provide constructive criticism here - I believe it is your driving style.
One thing to check is your alignment. If you have a rear wheel out of whack, like with a lot of toe out, that will contribute to your problem. Also check your tire pressures.
Couple of driving tips.
1)Learn the limit of your car on the tires that you run
2)Respect that limit
3)Do your braking in a straight line
4)Don't brake or lift the throttle after you have turned in
5)Do your braking in a straight line.... oh I mentioned that already.
6)Go to an HPDE to learn all of the above.
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From: Gardena, CA, USA
Re: oversteer problems (Ausmith)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ausmith »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Looking at your set-up, you do not have a problem with oversteer. I'm trying to provide constructive criticism here - I believe it is your driving style.
One thing to check is your alignment. If you have a rear wheel out of whack, like with a lot of toe out, that will contribute to your problem. Also check your tire pressures.
Couple of driving tips.
1)Learn the limit of your car on the tires that you run
2)Respect that limit
3)Do your braking in a straight line
4)Don't brake or lift the throttle after you have turned in
5)Do your braking in a straight line.... oh I mentioned that already.
6)Go to an HPDE to learn all of the above.</TD></TR></TABLE>
whats "late braking technique" I've heard people talk about it is it more for autox? thanks I apreciate constructive criticism Ausmith. what does everyone sugust I run 14" falken azenis at as far as tire pressure? ive heard people running anything ranging from 25psi to 38psi I right now it's about 40psi. and as far as alignment is 0 toe front 0 toe rear a good starting off set up?
Looking at your set-up, you do not have a problem with oversteer. I'm trying to provide constructive criticism here - I believe it is your driving style.
One thing to check is your alignment. If you have a rear wheel out of whack, like with a lot of toe out, that will contribute to your problem. Also check your tire pressures.
Couple of driving tips.
1)Learn the limit of your car on the tires that you run
2)Respect that limit
3)Do your braking in a straight line
4)Don't brake or lift the throttle after you have turned in
5)Do your braking in a straight line.... oh I mentioned that already.
6)Go to an HPDE to learn all of the above.</TD></TR></TABLE>
whats "late braking technique" I've heard people talk about it is it more for autox? thanks I apreciate constructive criticism Ausmith. what does everyone sugust I run 14" falken azenis at as far as tire pressure? ive heard people running anything ranging from 25psi to 38psi I right now it's about 40psi. and as far as alignment is 0 toe front 0 toe rear a good starting off set up?
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From: Future Site of the Runoffs, USA
Re: oversteer problems (EM1b18cR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EM1b18cR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its not like he competes at the canyons like initial D style, but he just drives just for fun. </TD></TR></TABLE>
this is obviously not the case if he ended up bass-ackwards and most likely at least partially in the lane meant for traffic moving in the other direction. as stated, this does not happen anywhere near the speed limit.
this is obviously not the case if he ended up bass-ackwards and most likely at least partially in the lane meant for traffic moving in the other direction. as stated, this does not happen anywhere near the speed limit.
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From: Gardena, CA, USA
Re: oversteer problems (tnord)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
this is obviously not the case if he ended up bass-ackwards and most likely at least partially in the lane meant for traffic moving in the other direction. as stated, this does not happen anywhere near the speed limit. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I was going 30-40mph which is not the speed limit the speed limit posted was 25mph
this is obviously not the case if he ended up bass-ackwards and most likely at least partially in the lane meant for traffic moving in the other direction. as stated, this does not happen anywhere near the speed limit. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I was going 30-40mph which is not the speed limit the speed limit posted was 25mph
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From: Jetsetter
Re: oversteer problems (yakitori)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakitori »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
whats "late braking technique" I've heard people talk about it is it more for autox? thanks I apreciate constructive criticism Ausmith. what does everyone sugust I run 14" falken azenis at as far as tire pressure? ive heard people running anything ranging from 25psi to 38psi I right now it's about 40psi. and as far as alignment is 0 toe front 0 toe rear a good starting off set up?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Late braking is not a technique.... it is something you do to make a move on another car at a turn.
Trail braking is a technique.... where you are applying the brake after you have started your turn-in through, sometimes, the apex of the turn.
Unless you are experienced, trail braking will get you in trouble almost every time.
40psi is a good pressure for those tires. Is that hot or cold? We've run as high as 45psi in the 15" for autocross.
whats "late braking technique" I've heard people talk about it is it more for autox? thanks I apreciate constructive criticism Ausmith. what does everyone sugust I run 14" falken azenis at as far as tire pressure? ive heard people running anything ranging from 25psi to 38psi I right now it's about 40psi. and as far as alignment is 0 toe front 0 toe rear a good starting off set up?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Late braking is not a technique.... it is something you do to make a move on another car at a turn.
Trail braking is a technique.... where you are applying the brake after you have started your turn-in through, sometimes, the apex of the turn.
Unless you are experienced, trail braking will get you in trouble almost every time.
40psi is a good pressure for those tires. Is that hot or cold? We've run as high as 45psi in the 15" for autocross.
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From: Gardena, CA, USA
Re: oversteer problems (Ausmith)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ausmith »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Late braking is not a technique.... it is something you do to make a move on another car at a turn.
Trail braking is a technique.... where you are applying the brake after you have started your turn-in through, sometimes, the apex of the turn.
Unless you are experienced, trail braking will get you in trouble almost every time.
40psi is a good pressure for those tires. Is that hot or cold? We've run as high as 45psi in the 15" for autocross. </TD></TR></TABLE>
wow you cleared alot of things up ... umm thats 40psi cold
Late braking is not a technique.... it is something you do to make a move on another car at a turn.
Trail braking is a technique.... where you are applying the brake after you have started your turn-in through, sometimes, the apex of the turn.
Unless you are experienced, trail braking will get you in trouble almost every time.
40psi is a good pressure for those tires. Is that hot or cold? We've run as high as 45psi in the 15" for autocross. </TD></TR></TABLE>
wow you cleared alot of things up ... umm thats 40psi cold
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From: Browns Summit, NC, USA
Re: oversteer problems (yakitori)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakitori »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
umm thats 40psi cold</TD></TR></TABLE>
personally i would never run over 34 in any tire.....on track conditions i start at 28 so tires end up at about 36-38...they get way to greasy over 38....
and on the street NO WAY IN THE world i would go with 40....
umm thats 40psi cold</TD></TR></TABLE>
personally i would never run over 34 in any tire.....on track conditions i start at 28 so tires end up at about 36-38...they get way to greasy over 38....
and on the street NO WAY IN THE world i would go with 40....
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From: Gardena, CA, USA
Re: oversteer problems (chad)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
personally i would never run over 34 in any tire.....on track conditions i start at 28 so tires end up at about 36-38...they get way to greasy over 38....
and on the street NO WAY IN THE world i would go with 40....</TD></TR></TABLE>
what would you sugust?
personally i would never run over 34 in any tire.....on track conditions i start at 28 so tires end up at about 36-38...they get way to greasy over 38....
and on the street NO WAY IN THE world i would go with 40....</TD></TR></TABLE>
what would you sugust?
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From: Gardena, CA, USA
Re: oversteer problems (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Reading is fun-da-mental.</TD></TR></TABLE>
so run the same psi on the street as I would on the track?
so run the same psi on the street as I would on the track?
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: oversteer problems (yakitori)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so tires end up at about 36-38</TD></TR></TABLE>
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From: Browns Summit, NC, USA
Re: oversteer problems (yakitori)
on the street i run at 32.....street tires....cmon now if you are pushing your street tires or any tires on the street and they heat up 6 plus pounds....YOU NEED TO GET YOUR *** OFF THE STREET CAUSE DARWIN IS COMING FOR YOU!!!!
i don't push my car on the street....i may push me but not the car....
but start out on track at 32 and lower from there....
i don't push my car on the street....i may push me but not the car....
but start out on track at 32 and lower from there....
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From: Jetsetter
Re: oversteer problems (chad)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
personally i would never run over 34 in any tire.....on track conditions i start at 28 so tires end up at about 36-38...they get way to greasy over 38....
and on the street NO WAY IN THE world i would go with 40....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Chad - it kind of depends on what tires you are running and what the application is. The Falken is specified to run a max cold pressure of 51psi.
They suck at anything below 38psi. At the track I've used 40spi cold and never seen a gain of more than 6psi - 20 minute session at Gingerman, as in the front left is working really hard.
Race tires are a different story. My cold psi on Hoosiers (1800lbs car) was 28psi.
40psi is fine on the street for Falken Azenis tires.
personally i would never run over 34 in any tire.....on track conditions i start at 28 so tires end up at about 36-38...they get way to greasy over 38....
and on the street NO WAY IN THE world i would go with 40....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Chad - it kind of depends on what tires you are running and what the application is. The Falken is specified to run a max cold pressure of 51psi.
They suck at anything below 38psi. At the track I've used 40spi cold and never seen a gain of more than 6psi - 20 minute session at Gingerman, as in the front left is working really hard.
Race tires are a different story. My cold psi on Hoosiers (1800lbs car) was 28psi.
40psi is fine on the street for Falken Azenis tires.
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From: Browns Summit, NC, USA
Re: oversteer problems (Ausmith)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ausmith »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Chad - it kind of depends on what tires you are running and what the application is. The Falken is specified to run a max cold pressure of 51psi.
They suck at anything below 38psi. At the track I've used 40spi cold and never seen a gain of more than 6psi - 20 minute session at Gingerman, as in the front left is working really hard.
Race tires are a different story. My cold psi on Hoosiers (1800lbs car) was 28psi.
40psi is fine on the street for Falken Azenis tires.</TD></TR></TABLE>
wow....see my azeni's gained 6-10 psi at summit, vir, cmp....anything over 38-40 i felt as though they were greasy....
ao32's the same way
perielli p700z's
dunlap sp8000, sp9000
all "went away" after 38 psi....
Chad - it kind of depends on what tires you are running and what the application is. The Falken is specified to run a max cold pressure of 51psi.
They suck at anything below 38psi. At the track I've used 40spi cold and never seen a gain of more than 6psi - 20 minute session at Gingerman, as in the front left is working really hard.
Race tires are a different story. My cold psi on Hoosiers (1800lbs car) was 28psi.
40psi is fine on the street for Falken Azenis tires.</TD></TR></TABLE>
wow....see my azeni's gained 6-10 psi at summit, vir, cmp....anything over 38-40 i felt as though they were greasy....
ao32's the same way
perielli p700z's
dunlap sp8000, sp9000
all "went away" after 38 psi....
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From: Jetsetter
Re: oversteer problems (chad)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
wow....see my azeni's gained 6-10 psi at summit, vir, cmp....anything over 38-40 i felt as though they were greasy....
ao32's the same way
perielli p700z's
dunlap sp8000, sp9000
all "went away" after 38 psi....</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree with you on the SP8000 and I would add the A520 to the <38psi category. Maybe they changed the compound somehwere along the way.... I don't know
The only problem I have ever had with Falkens @ 40psi on the street is with ride quality. 32 - 35psi provides a much nicer ride.
Okay - let's say somewhere between 32-40psi cold for Falkens
wow....see my azeni's gained 6-10 psi at summit, vir, cmp....anything over 38-40 i felt as though they were greasy....
ao32's the same way
perielli p700z's
dunlap sp8000, sp9000
all "went away" after 38 psi....</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree with you on the SP8000 and I would add the A520 to the <38psi category. Maybe they changed the compound somehwere along the way.... I don't know
The only problem I have ever had with Falkens @ 40psi on the street is with ride quality. 32 - 35psi provides a much nicer ride.
Okay - let's say somewhere between 32-40psi cold for Falkens
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From: Gardena, CA, USA
Re: oversteer problems (chad)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
wow....see my azeni's gained 6-10 psi at summit, vir, cmp....anything over 38-40 i felt as though they were greasy....
ao32's the same way
perielli p700z's
dunlap sp8000, sp9000
all "went away" after 38 psi....</TD></TR></TABLE>
chad what R compound tire do you recomend for the track? a032 are greasy above 38psi?
wow....see my azeni's gained 6-10 psi at summit, vir, cmp....anything over 38-40 i felt as though they were greasy....
ao32's the same way
perielli p700z's
dunlap sp8000, sp9000
all "went away" after 38 psi....</TD></TR></TABLE>
chad what R compound tire do you recomend for the track? a032 are greasy above 38psi?
Re: oversteer problems (yakitori)
A032R's are really nice on the track if you can afford them. But if you are on a budget azenis really can't be beat. But they do get pretty shredded as the day goes on.