<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakitori &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

so if I didn't drive my car fast in the canyons</TD></TR></TABLE>

okay, that's a start

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> and my car was set up for oversteer</TD></TR></TABLE>

Okay...that's an option

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my car wouldn't oversteer at the track or at autox?</TD></TR></TABLE>

eh? This logic doesn't follow. How fast you drive on the street is totally irrelevant to how your car handles. If you lose control on the street, you need to slow the **** down.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

okay, that's a start

Okay...that's an option



eh? This logic doesn't follow. How fast you drive on the street is totally irrelevant to how your car handles. If you lose control on the street, you need to slow the **** down.</TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly! telling me not to drive crazy in the canyons wont help my oversteer problem

anyway it was never stated how fast I was going or if I was driving recklessly. I was actually going 30mph when my car oversteered so you dont think that will be magnified on the track going 100?

im looking for technical advice here not grief for my choices

 

I have a hard time believing falkens lost grip at 30mph.

You really need to get your *** off the streets and dial the car in at a few autocross events or at a track event.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakitori &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

exactly! telling me not to drive crazy in the canyons wont help my oversteer problem </TD></TR></TABLE>

Uh, remind me again where you had your "oversteer problem"

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">almost flew off the mountain going down hill sliding twords the edge sideways</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh yea, that's right. That would lead me to believe that telling you not to drive crazy in the canyons would fix your "oversteer problem."

Nevertheless, from the comments you've made thus far, I would give you the same advice on and off the track...slow down. Developing a good feel for car dynamics doesn't have to happen at full speed even when you are smart enough to learn it on the track or autocross course. It sounds to me like you just upset the car which happens to all of us, but it's driver error...not an oversteer problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Uh, remind me again where you had your "oversteer problem"

Oh yea, that's right. That would lead me to believe that telling you not to drive crazy in the canyons would fix your "oversteer problem."

Nevertheless, from the comments you've made thus far, I would give you the same advice on and off the track...slow down. Developing a good feel for car dynamics doesn't have to happen at full speed even when you are smart enough to learn it on the track or autocross course. It sounds to me like you just upset the car which happens to all of us, but it's driver error...not an oversteer problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have a problem with way too much oversteer. could it be my style of driving? am I connering incorrectly? I have a 1995 si stock front sway bar eg6 rear 15mm sway bar koni shocks tanabe super down precedeo springs falken azenis 14"
almost flew off the mountain going down hill sliding twords the edge sideways

I asked for driving techniques and car set ups I didn't blame my car I did call it MY oversteer problem not MY CAR'S oversteer problem

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakitori &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I asked for driving techniques and car set ups I didn't blame my car I did call it MY oversteer problem not MY CAR'S oversteer problem </TD></TR></TABLE>

Then get to the track with an instructor. And keep it off the streets.

RJ - who thinks that if he keeps saying it, this guy will get it....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a hard time believing falkens lost grip at 30mph.

You really need to get your *** off the streets and dial the car in at a few autocross events or at a track event.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't mention I go to autox and track events? well if I haven't I do frequently attend autox and track events but love to visit the canyons once in a while (where I have met a great deal of scca members) and wanted to ask honda TECH about it and all I get is trouble from a moderator and his followers? I thought you'd be more helpful and look past the illegal activities that I know more than just EYE participate in. btw you've never raced someone on the street or have illegal parts in your car? I bet you have/do

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakitori &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I didn't mention I go to autox and track events?</TD></TR></TABLE>

And i have no idea why you arent seeking out instruction there. Where it matters. Where its directly applied. Where its off the streets.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">btw you've never raced someone on the street or have illegal parts in your car? I bet you have/do</TD></TR></TABLE>

No i dont street race. My cars have always been "slow". And i dont have anything illegal on them, my cars have always kept fully functional emissions equipment and passed inspection.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EGTeK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dont push it through the canyons, it isnt worth it.

if you absolutely have to run,

1. avoid hitting the paint in hard cornering
2. be smooth
3. dont let off the gas completely. make sure there is even throttle applied so the rear tires have some weight to work with.
4. learn how to control your car.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

well if you are oversteering you would not almost be going off moutians....you would be driving into them.......

oversteer means car turns too much....
understeer means car "pushes"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakitori &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

exactly! telling me not to drive crazy in the canyons wont help my oversteer problem

anyway it was never stated how fast I was going or if I was driving recklessly. I was actually going 30mph when my car oversteered so you dont think that will be magnified on the track going 100?

im looking for technical advice here not grief for my choices</TD></TR></TABLE>

First of all, the car doesn't just oversteer all the time (same goes for understeer). It all depends on your setup and how you drive it. I'm going to bet that you had the back end slide on you because of deceleration. It's very common for inexperienced people to be taking a turn fast, panic, and hit the brakes. Hitting the brakes, or even lifting off of the throttle, will transfer the weight towards the front of the car. That means there's less to hold down the rear, and if you are taking a turn a little fast at the time, the rear wheels can easily slide out on you. How much the car wants to do this depends on the setup of the car, surface conditions, how fast you were taking the turn, and how much deceleration. Also, if you are not smooth, it will upset the balance of the car. Don't surprise the car with steering, throttle, or brakes, ease into them (you can be fast, but not jerky); and never shift or hit your revlimiter in a turn.

If you find yourself oversteering, get on the throttle to move some weight to the rear. If it's too late for that and you're in a spin, do not fight it or attempt to recover; put the clutch in, get on the brakes, and wait for the car to come to a stop.

"Slow in, fast out" is what you want to do for turns. That means to do all of your braking before the turn, start turning, and gently add an appropriate amount of throttle as you complete the turn. If you give it too much throttle and the wheels spin, back off until they grip again. Look up the "late apex", that's the best way to start taking lines.

The problem with mountain runs is not only are you in a uncontrolled environment, but there's blind turns. Obviosuly you are not able to see if there's gravel, bicyclists, a wreck, or something else around the turn, but you can't plan your driving either. You need to know surface conditions, how sharp the turn is, how long it is, how much room you have to work with, and so on. So, most people go through turn blind, making corrections as needed, and having "oh ****!" moments. Not only is that dangerous, but it's not fast either. And even if you know the area well, it's still much easier to plan your shifting, braking, acceleration, and line when you can see what you're dealing with. That's why you're getting the grief that you are here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well if you are oversteering you would not almost be going off moutians....you would be driving into them.......

oversteer means car turns too much....
understeer means car "pushes" </TD></TR></TABLE>

Oversteer means the rear tires loose traction. It will start with the car turning too much, but it can quickly become a spin and you will go in every direction except for where you wanted to go.


BTW, the advice about avoiding painted road lines/markings is good. There is less traction on them. However, I think that unless it's wet out, you're not really going to notice unless you're pushing the car's limits more than you ever should on the street.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakitori &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I get is trouble from a moderator and his followers? </TD></TR></TABLE>

RJ and I happen to agree this time, go figure...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thought you'd be more helpful and look past the illegal activities</TD></TR></TABLE>

What gave you that idea? You didn't find that in the search, I'm sure.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">btw you've never raced someone on the street or have illegal parts in your car? I bet you have/do</TD></TR></TABLE>

A Cherokee towing 3000# worth of trailer/racecar doesn't make for a very good street racer

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Weston &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

First of all, the car doesn't just oversteer all the time (same goes for understeer). It all depends on your setup and how you drive it. I'm going to bet that you had the back end slide on you because of deceleration. It's very common for inexperienced people to be taking a turn fast, panic, and hit the brakes. Hitting the brakes, or even lifting off of the throttle, will transfer the weight towards the front of the car. That means there's less to hold down the rear, and if you are taking a turn a little fast at the time, the rear wheels can easily slide out on you. How much the car wants to do this depends on the setup of the car, surface conditions, how fast you were taking the turn, and how much deceleration. Also, if you are not smooth, it will upset the balance of the car. Don't surprise the car with steering, throttle, or brakes, ease into them (you can be fast, but not jerky); and never shift or hit your revlimiter in a turn.

If you find yourself oversteering, get on the throttle to move some weight to the rear. If it's too late for that and you're in a spin, do not fight it or attempt to recover; put the clutch in, get on the brakes, and wait for the car to come to a stop.

"Slow in, fast out" is what you want to do for turns. That means to do all of your braking before the turn, start turning, and gently add an appropriate amount of throttle as you complete the turn. If you give it too much throttle and the wheels spin, back off until they grip again. Look up the "late apex", that's the best way to start taking lines.

The problem with mountain runs is not only are you in a uncontrolled environment, but there's blind turns. Obviosuly you are not able to see if there's gravel, bicyclists, a wreck, or something else around the turn, but you can't plan your driving either. You need to know surface conditions, how sharp the turn is, how long it is, how much room you have to work with, and so on. So, most people go through turn blind, making corrections as needed, and having "oh ****!" moments. Not only is that dangerous, but it's not fast either. And even if you know the area well, it's still much easier to plan your shifting, braking, acceleration, and line when you can see what you're dealing with. That's why you're getting the grief that you are here.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

wow thanks how about turn in timing will that effect oversteer also? I think maybe I turned in late because the turn was one of those blind turns where it starts out mild then gets tighter twords the end..........
thanks I really apreciate the advice I'd rather someone critisize me on my driving than my choices in life

and I dont see why people keep telling me not to "push it" at the canyons I'm probably the most frightened one to go above 50mph on the straight aways I dont really push it there and i know for a fact that I was going 30mph in the turn when the tires lost traction...

and for you guys telling me to "keep it off the public roads" I understand your view point but can't you provide technical advice with your lecture?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakitori &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd rather someone critisize me on my driving than my choices in life </TD></TR></TABLE>

What if the choices you make render you unable to drive? Or worse yet, someone else?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What if the choices you make render you unable to drive? Or worse yet, someone else?</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats the same with race on or off the track I've seen a guy get hit at autox before does that make it more safe than me driving thru an empty canyon without houses maybe maybe not but like I said I understand where you're coming from I'm not trying to argue here I just wanted some advice on driving technique and car set up for more understeer maybe I should've left out the canyon part

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakitori &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats the same with race on or off the track </TD></TR></TABLE>

No!!!!

Not the same!!!!!

On track you have:

- Everyone going the same direction
- Corner workers with flags
- On-track rules and protocols
- Everyone paying attention to what they're doing
- Staff to keep the track clear
- EMT on site in case anything should happen

You said you hadnt been to the track since your suspension was stock, but yet you continue to state that you go to the track.

 

okay okay you win my questions were answered and I've been helpped you win the argument I apologize I'm wrong you're right I'm ugly you're handsome I'm stupid you're smart can we end this now? I hate arguments

 

*sigh*

RJ - who wonders if you really get it though....

 

YAKITORI......you just can't drive and that is why you are having problems.....

another problem is you need to be in a prediticable REPEATABLE environment for you to presicly troubleshoot your problems.....

 

Chad for moderator!

Yay!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">*sigh*

RJ - who wonders if you really get it though.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

I get it RJ thanks for your concern I will stop visiting the canyons and putting innocent peoples lives at risk. I will spend my financial aid money to get more track time (I already have a personal instructor who also told me to stop going to the canyons haha it's just fun for me ) BTW ANYONE GOING TO DECEMBER 27TH STREETS OF WILLOW EVENT?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakitori &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I BTW ANYONE GOING TO DECEMBER 27TH STREETS OF WILLOW EVENT?</TD></TR></TABLE>


i would be participating but i have a canyon run planned for that day!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakitori &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thats the same with race on or off the track I've seen a guy get hit at autox before does that make it more safe than me driving thru an empty canyon without houses maybe maybe not but like I said I understand where you're coming from I'm not trying to argue here I just wanted some advice on driving technique and car set up for more understeer maybe I should've left out the canyon part </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you get it at an autox, someone was being remarkably stupid...i've never heard of anyone getting even close at autox

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gary201147 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If you get it at an autox, someone was being remarkably stupid...i've never heard of anyone getting even close at autox </TD></TR></TABLE>


i have seen a few videos but nothing first hand...the vidoes alone make me think about watching when i'm out on station flagging

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


i would be participating but i have a canyon run planned for that day!</TD></TR></TABLE>

hahaha uh oh