Ok the car is an 89 crx si prepared to STS2 rules. The setup is KW Variant 3's 450 front springs/650 rear springs. Energy Suspension Bushings throughout. Aligned this past weekend trying to eliminate any of the problems that will be listed that will follow.

1st the car has horrible mid-corner and corner exit wheel spin. Heck it can even lightem up in a slalom. Tried HF front bar and no front bar with no difference at all.

2nd the car pulls insanely hard to the right. No exaggeration you could let go of the wheel and make all right turns just by punching it. As stated the car was aligned and all the numbers are perfect. Car tracks straight as an arrow under cruising throttle, coasting, and braking.

Any guru's out there that have better knowledge on any of the aforementioned problems would be greatly appreciated.

 

This definately sounds like worn out motor mounts.

 

Oh, Forgot to add that little fact to.

Motor mounts are less than 2 years old and also are equiped with the energy suspension inserts. Checked them this weekend and they all checked out ok as well.

 

You didn't mention what (if any) rear bar you are using. If you don't have a rear bar, or its too small, it will allow too much weight transfer at the front wheels (by virtue of too much weight transfer in the back), and lead to your wheelspin problem.

As to the pulling, have you looked closely at all the suspension attachment points to make sure there are no cracks in the unibody/subframes, or any loose fasteners? Maybe the bushings in the front crossmember aren't fully seated, or something is loose. I know its not a Honda, but my buddy's 86 Scirocco did this, and when we investigated, we found a crack that only reared its ugly head under load. We had to pry at the suspension while the car was in the air to open and find the crack.

 

Thanks for the heads up on something being cracked.

I have the ASR rear sway bar. So that pretty much takes out all of the back end moving around. Even with it disconnected or connected the wheelspin is pretty much the same.

 

any signs of odd tire wear up front?

 

Open diff?

 

No odd tire ware and it is an open diff. The alignment guy thought it could be a bad diff but when I said it was open he rulled that out. It is for STS2 so before everybody says get a limited slip. I can not because of the rules.

Keep em coming. I can use all of the craziest ideas as to solve both problems.

On a side note. Are the energy suspension radius rod bushings too stiff for the radius rods not allowing the tire to be pushed down by the rest of the suspension components therefore creating the overly drastic wheel spin issues. I will be picking up some new stock ones to see if that will cure that problem.

 

Are your KW coilovers possibly not allowing enough droop in the suspension, therefore limiting how much the inside corner can do?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ScoobyDan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On a side note. Are the energy suspension radius rod bushings too stiff for the radius rods not allowing the tire to be pushed down by the rest of the suspension components therefore creating the overly drastic wheel spin issues. I will be picking up some new stock ones to see if that will cure that problem.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i highly doubt it. ive had energy, prothane and omp units in the raidus rods. never had an issue where they didnt let the suspension droop. the springs overcome any 'binding' from too stiff a bushing or binding sphyrical
on a side note-both my EFs have at one point pulled to the right on the throttle. b-series, d-series, open diff, lsd, good bushings, bad bushings.

 

the pull could be caused due to bad steering rack bushings or they could be loose check that area out aswell. have you always had this pull?

 

Thanks for all the tips so far. No the pull just recently appeared. I know there will be the ever present torque steer but this is beyond that.

I was wondering if the steering rack bushings could be part of the problem but thought that was to far from the wheel and that wouldn't be it. But it does make sense as it does the steering.

Could even the slightest play in the ball joints also make the pulling worse?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ScoobyDan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Could even the slightest play in the ball joints also make the pulling worse? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Sure. That or a bad tie rod end.

Seems like your alignment guy would have found that, though. Pretty standard stuff to check all that stuff before a front-end alignment. That's where 80% of their business comes from. Any chance he didn't check it during alignment for some reason?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ScoobyDan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Could even the slightest play in the ball joints also make the pulling worse? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Keep in mind that a 0.010" play in your ball-joints may translate to 0.060-.080 at the tire. That's quite a bit.

 

Could you explain this please?

 

sounds like the best fix for your wheelspin issue would be an LSD.only so much you can do with an open diff.

as for the pulling problem,it definitely sounds like something is flexing under acceleration load.radius rod bushings worn/unequally tightened maybe?

just for consideration,last weekend i installed a solid torque mount on the tranny side(this is in a 94 Civic)of my car.didn't have time to do the driver side(which currently has inserts in it).the car pulls hard to the right under acceleration and deceleration.it's amazing how much difference it made by eliminating maybe 1/4" of movement on the one side.it doesn't take much play somewhere to make a very noticeable difference.
Chris

 

what tires are you using?

i'd agree with the LSD suggestions, though i've never had THAT much of a problem with an open diff on street tires. hondas aren't torque monsters, so you have to try pretty damn hard to break the tires loose while turning.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vinuneuro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Could you explain this please?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's just a mechanical thing. Think of a 12" steel ruler. If one end is fixed, and the other end moved, say, one inch, that's one inch of movement over that 12". But what's the movement half way along the ruler, it's half as much, or 1/2".

So about the ball-joints. Say the steering ball-joint is located 4" ahead of the front axle centerline, and has 0.010" of play in it. Let's also say that the tires are 24" in diameter. That means that the forward surface of the tire is 12" ahead of front axle centerline. But we already said that, 4" out, we have 0.010" of play. So three times further out, at the tire surface, that motion has been mechanically amplified to 0.030". The actual amount of play depends on how bad the ball-joints are, the distance they are off the steering centerline, and the OD of the tire.

 

I wish I could go with a LSD but can not due to rules. I raced a scirroco for 2 years with a LSD and r-comps in FSP and what a blast.

So open diff is what aI am stuck with and the tires are Bridgestone RE-01r's so the grip is there if it could only be put down.

kb58 thanks for that explanation. It really helps break down how a little bit can become a huge problem at the end of a specified dimension.

 

I would go through the entire front suspension and steering to make sure everything is tightened properly. You might have something loose that the alignment guy didn't notice if it simply takes some load to shift it around.

I recently had an undertorqued subframe on an EG give drastically dynamic caster only when the car was moving. That was a fun autocross..

Also check your rear suspension to make sure it's stable. I could imagine a bad trailing arm bushing making steering/throttle load changes pretty twitchy.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tronic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would go through the entire front suspension and steering to make sure everything is tightened properly. You might have something loose.</TD></TR></TABLE>

like steering rack hardware, rear crossmember bolts, front crossmember bolts. don't laugh. i have found all of these loose on my EF and the rear crossmember and steering rack have never been out of the car.
on another note-my car developed a mystery pull on acceleration on my way to summit a few weeks ago. i figured i'd look into it when i got to the track since i had the entire front sus appart. everything was ok but i did kill a wheelbearing on track that weekend. the new one just went in. ill take it for a test ride some time this weekend (barring weather) and see if that was the pull.