dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
10-17-2010, 02:16 PM
#26
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Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
That is incorrect.
The B20B came in the JDM with the PHK pistons, so it IS legal to use the PHK pistons. Likewise, the B20B also came with the P8R head, so it's allowed.
The B20B1/Z never came with the P8R head, so you can't use it on that bottom end code.
That's the reason for the difference.
The B20B came in the JDM with the PHK pistons, so it IS legal to use the PHK pistons. Likewise, the B20B also came with the P8R head, so it's allowed.
The B20B1/Z never came with the P8R head, so you can't use it on that bottom end code.
That's the reason for the difference.
Night, points-based systems have their own frustrations. In some ways with respect to that, HC is better. In others, points-based is the winner. I'd say with either you're taking your cons with the pros.
10-17-2010, 03:15 PM
#27
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Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
wait, you can't put Z pistons in a B1 block? So basically.. you might as well require everyone to have a JDM high CR, big valve motor if they want a 2L.
Off the top of my head, the B20B1 cr is 8.8. Why even have it on the list with the 10.1 limit if it will not be possible to get close to that? I remember some long *** thread on the HC forum on this topic. It has been a month+ since I read through it.
Off the top of my head, the B20B1 cr is 8.8. Why even have it on the list with the 10.1 limit if it will not be possible to get close to that? I remember some long *** thread on the HC forum on this topic. It has been a month+ since I read through it.
10-17-2010, 03:27 PM
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Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
i think the whole reason is because of the H2 class. its designed to have stock motors. not a motor with mixed and matched parts (thats what H1 is for)
prkiller, while i have you here, i would like to ask a semi-related question. ive asked it a few times, but never got a clear official answer.
what if the the block code was not readable. either ground off or damaged. how would the inspectors handle this? in H2 i could see this being a big problem, since you wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a JDM and a USDM motor. or would it be OK still? what about H1? from what i see in H1, it really doesnt matter whether a motor is USDM or JDM, but that the parts are OEM, and that can be verified by other means, like the casting marks/codes (P72, etc)
clarification much appreciated
prkiller, while i have you here, i would like to ask a semi-related question. ive asked it a few times, but never got a clear official answer.
what if the the block code was not readable. either ground off or damaged. how would the inspectors handle this? in H2 i could see this being a big problem, since you wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a JDM and a USDM motor. or would it be OK still? what about H1? from what i see in H1, it really doesnt matter whether a motor is USDM or JDM, but that the parts are OEM, and that can be verified by other means, like the casting marks/codes (P72, etc)
clarification much appreciated
10-17-2010, 04:13 PM
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Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
i think the whole reason is because of the H2 class. its designed to have stock motors. not a motor with mixed and matched parts (thats what H1 is for)
prkiller, while i have you here, i would like to ask a semi-related question. ive asked it a few times, but never got a clear official answer.
what if the the block code was not readable. either ground off or damaged. how would the inspectors handle this? in H2 i could see this being a big problem, since you wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a JDM and a USDM motor. or would it be OK still? what about H1? from what i see in H1, it really doesnt matter whether a motor is USDM or JDM, but that the parts are OEM, and that can be verified by other means, like the casting marks/codes (P72, etc)
clarification much appreciated
prkiller, while i have you here, i would like to ask a semi-related question. ive asked it a few times, but never got a clear official answer.
what if the the block code was not readable. either ground off or damaged. how would the inspectors handle this? in H2 i could see this being a big problem, since you wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a JDM and a USDM motor. or would it be OK still? what about H1? from what i see in H1, it really doesnt matter whether a motor is USDM or JDM, but that the parts are OEM, and that can be verified by other means, like the casting marks/codes (P72, etc)
clarification much appreciated
You are exactly right! H2 is not for mix and match of parts, thus the reason the rules are the way they are.
The easiest way to think of thing when building an engine is: Did it come this way from the factory? If not, then it's likely not legal.
GSRCRXSi,
To your question. If the block code was missing, then technically by the rules, you'd have to scrap the block completely right?
If it was "my" engine, I'd make sure there was a block stamping there even if I had to do it myself. Is this cheating? No, not if all the parts inside the engine correspond to the block stamping.
For instance, if it's a B18C1 and the stamped now reads as such, and all the parts inside the block are indeed GSR, then it's very clearly a GSR.
When it comes to a place like Nationals, well, all that stuff will likely be checked in tech if you win anyway. Head usually comes off, and things are looked at.
So, I'd still run the engine!
10-17-2010, 04:49 PM
#30
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Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
There are similar issues with certain B16 models, but I'm not as familiar with the semantic details. Really, it makes sense. Also, the minimum weights represent a difference, and its not a HUGE difference to begin with. It just sucks from a "putting a motor together from scratch" perspective. I also question some of the posed maximum compression ratios, but whatever.
10-17-2010, 05:24 PM
#31
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Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
There are similar issues with certain B16 models, but I'm not as familiar with the semantic details. Really, it makes sense. Also, the minimum weights represent a difference, and its not a HUGE difference to begin with. It just sucks from a "putting a motor together from scratch" perspective. I also question some of the posed maximum compression ratios, but whatever.
I'm not trying to be a douche with this, only that.. well, my biggest thought is engine availability over time to meet these overly specific rules. A B20B1 is a useless engine vs the Z or JDM B if you can't match their specs *with oem parts* (I have yet to see concrete info that the P8R head is even effectively better).
This also gives my irritation with not allowing sleeved blocks. I would just feel better about an engines longevity, and rebuild ability. Especially in B20 land. Some things intended to keep the cost of racing down seem rather counter intuitive to me.
Once again, a lot of this is simply a mental exercise for me as I will likely never be in HC. Just trying to understand.
If there were HC here though... I would be so tempted to show up with an A20. A 2L 12valve. Let them figure that out. Which btw, stock, puts out more torque than hp
10-17-2010, 05:56 PM
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Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
The HC ruleset is not perfect. There is a lot of room for improvement, I don't know that anyone disagrees with that. However, the process for changing rules is based on competitor-submitted information for the most part. If no one is trying to change it, it won't happen.
10-17-2010, 06:24 PM
#33
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10-17-2010, 10:34 PM
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Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
You are exactly right! H2 is not for mix and match of parts, thus the reason the rules are the way they are.
The easiest way to think of thing when building an engine is: Did it come this way from the factory? If not, then it's likely not legal.
GSRCRXSi,
To your question. If the block code was missing, then technically by the rules, you'd have to scrap the block completely right?
If it was "my" engine, I'd make sure there was a block stamping there even if I had to do it myself. Is this cheating? No, not if all the parts inside the engine correspond to the block stamping.
For instance, if it's a B18C1 and the stamped now reads as such, and all the parts inside the block are indeed GSR, then it's very clearly a GSR.
When it comes to a place like Nationals, well, all that stuff will likely be checked in tech if you win anyway. Head usually comes off, and things are looked at.
So, I'd still run the engine!
The easiest way to think of thing when building an engine is: Did it come this way from the factory? If not, then it's likely not legal.
GSRCRXSi,
To your question. If the block code was missing, then technically by the rules, you'd have to scrap the block completely right?
If it was "my" engine, I'd make sure there was a block stamping there even if I had to do it myself. Is this cheating? No, not if all the parts inside the engine correspond to the block stamping.
For instance, if it's a B18C1 and the stamped now reads as such, and all the parts inside the block are indeed GSR, then it's very clearly a GSR.
When it comes to a place like Nationals, well, all that stuff will likely be checked in tech if you win anyway. Head usually comes off, and things are looked at.
So, I'd still run the engine!
10-17-2010, 11:05 PM
#35
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Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
If the B16 you have is labeled "B16a", then that motor actually came with the low comp US pistons and the high comp JDM pistons at different points in the JDM B16's life, so either is legal to use.
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