dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

I tried a handful of different search strings and couldn't find much. Sorry if this has been posted/discussed. What were the top 5 or top 10 (was every one dyno'ed?) dyno results for the H2 class and what was its engine? Were there any D series engine entries? I remember reading one post by Donna G. saying her car was a bit under powered @ Utah...

I thought it might be fun to take a quick look at the different setups and give us an overall picture.

Here are the top 10 from Friday's qualifying session which I thought might be better than the qualifying race and race results for this examination:

1. Jonathan Meris 2:14.675
1997 EK 4DR | B18/20? | whp/ft-lbs | spec weight | actual weight

2. Jeremy Croiset 2:14.707
1990 EF CRX | B16 | 143whp | 2280lbs | 2310lbs

3. Jimmy Chilcott 2:15.570
1993 EG HB | K20A3? | ? | 2300lbs? | ?

4. Ryan Flaherty 2:16.035
1989 EF CRX | ? | ? | ? | ?

5. Benoit Pecqueur 2:16.131
1995 EG CPE | B18 TypeR | 170 whp @ nationals | 2550lbs | 2552lbs after the race on friday

6. John Almazan 2:16.209
1998 DC Integra | ? | ? | ? | ?

7. Donna Gilio 2:16.310
1992 DA Integra CPE | ? | ? | ? | ?

8. Manny Coats 2:16.354
1990 EF CRX | B20 | 131whp | 2300lbs | 2325lbs

9. Stephan Papadakis 2:16.555
1989 EF CRX | ? | ? | ? | ?

10. Randy Gibb 2:16.786
2004 DC5 RSX | K20? | ? | 2700lbs? | ?


I like how there are 6 different chassis in the H2 top 10 qualifying. Recall the recent thread of chassis selection several people picked DC2 CPE over EK's. Yet Meris' EK 4DR is @ top of the charts for this year.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

5. Benoit Pecqueur 2:16.131
1995 EG CPE |B18 TypeR 170hp dyno at the track 2552lbs after the race on friday

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

From the NASA H2 rules:

All Honda/Acura All B20B OEM or Crower Cams Part#
62402HC-2 permitted (order
directly from Crower for Special
HC pricing)
10.1:1 2300

All Honda/Acura All B20B1/B20Z OEM or Crower Cams Part#
62402HC-2 permitted (order
directly from Crower for Special
HC pricing)
10.1:1 2275

Why is one allowed to be 25 lbs lighter? Is there a difference in manifold or something? Since the same CR and cams are allowed that's the only thing I can think of. Is there any difference in head casting?

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

If you are looking for a explanation of the rules thats ok.
But I think after all the kaos here, and in the private HC forum this topic should go the way side, and not be discussed.

It is still a sore spot for those involved, and should be left to the competitors only.
The time is now to just let sleeping dogs alone...Just my .02

Now if you want to know why certain parts combos are allowed more or less weight I am sure someone with a good knowledge of the CCR's will be happy to step up and chime in to clear the confusion up.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

It would be interesting to see numbers. would make for a good comparo for hp/lbs with the diff engine combo's. So..... lets see them!

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

is the 2300 supposed to be the bigger valve head? forgot the casting.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

It is not my intent to stir any pot or get on anyone's sides as I have hardly any clues of the kaos you speak of. I assume there might be some changes in the rules and weight adjustments for 2011?

I have never studied the H2 rules closely before until now. Thus I have questions so please bear with me or anyone that else find it interesting. The H2 class has gained popularity I'm sure there are other potential future competitors that might have questions about it as well.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

Has anyone ever ran a D-series in H2? Figure it would make decent power since its fairly open to mods.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

noone has done it with success. power to weight isnt close to the b16a or type R cars or even the k20a3 cars.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

I don't see a problem with a thread like that. Those info is beneficial to potential racers (who are not in the private forum) to see what's been done out there. If those guys are willing to volunteer the information, that would be great.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

like dirty said..there was already a thread on here that i believe already got deleted.

wai has a good point but the problem is..i dont think alot of information gets shared on this forum. so you will have to dig for a bit but even with that some information/rules might change by the time you are able to go w2w.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

I agree with out bringing in the competitors, and discussing only the differences in the known allowed engine packages for H2.

Note to the HC inspectors who frequent this forum (you know who you are)
If you could be so kind to explain this (i know its a lot to ask) but the non HC drivers or future HC drivers would like the rules explained.

I read the CCR's quite often as a competitor, but sometimes they read like bad stereo instructions. :P

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

Confusing Constructive Reading? lol. that is no joke though. i emailed our region director on an issue per the ccr. basically the ccr statement "did not have any relevance".

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

What's the question?

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

they want to see dyno numbers from miller along with post race weight im assuming.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

i really dont know what all the fuss is about. if people want to talk about setups, why keep it secret? people just getting into the sport, or thinking about getting into the sport should be allowed the same info.

now a driver/racer/builder DOES have the right to the privacy of their setup, and if they wish to keep their motor a closely guarded secret, thats fine. its also not ok for anyone to discuss someone elses setup without their consent. but if someone wants to openly talk about their setup, i dont see why you should censor them.

personally i think it would be better if people openly talked about and discussed different setups. it would really help people who are looking for info who are new and dont know where to start. HC offers racers the ability to pretty much go any number of directions with how to set the car up and still be in the same class. but everyone wants to be secretive and not help anyone, and try to bend the rules to have a competitive edge.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

I think its the post after Benny's that brings out the biggest questions.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

1. was dyno'ing @ nationals completely optional/voluntary or just required for certain finishers?

2. was the dyno result public? if so i don't see why gathering them up for this post is any invasion of any competitor's privacy.

3. same with post race weights, isn't that considered public? is it legal for some one to camp out @ weights and record every weight in?

I can understand if someone wants to keep their competitive edge and not disclose their setups in full details but it would seem the releasing the actual whp/tq and weight #'s would not do any real harm especially if it's semi public already. Ie, scattered around among many little posts...

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

The B20B is permitted to use the P8R head while the B20B1/Z is not because H2 rules don't allow you to mix and match heads from differently marked bottom ends. The P8R head has larger valves and makes more power, hence the 25lb weight difference.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

1. Voluntary and required. Some used the dyno to tune while others were required to make dyno pulls at NASA's expense for tech purposes.

2. No. The dyno pulls for tech were strictly confidential and only the competitor and one crew member from his team were permitted to be near the dyno while it was in operation.

3. Again, no. Anything that happens in tech is NOT public knowledge and kept confidential within tech and the specific team. Everyone can infer what weight you are running at by what engine you claim to be running. But the final numbers are not public knowledge and if the competitor doesn't want someone knowing the weight they are running at, they make a few requests and it's done so. Most people generally don't care who knows what weight they are running, and thus, it's not that big of a deal.

It's up to the competitor what they disclose and what they don't.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

2. Jeremy Croiset 2:14.707
1990 EF CRX | B16 | 143hp | 2280lbs | 2310lbs

8. Manny Coats 2:16.354
1990 EF CRX | B20 | 131hp | 2300lbs | 2325lbs

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

I agree, what happened happened. If anybody is interested to know more about Honda challenge, you can go to nasaproracing.com and find out where is the next race in your region.
Anybody can walk in there and talk to any of the drivers. They are all a bunch of nice guys willing to talk and share info with people interested in getting in the series.
Also there are people that can tell you what needs to be done to become a license driver.
Forums are good to discuss tech issues. What happens in the race has to be discussed by the racers at the track.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

One of the big factors at Nationals this year (and last, I'm guessing) was elevation at Miller. It was high enough to have an effect on engine power, and a lot of racers didn't account for this with retuning. It is difficult to compare engines because of this, as they were not all on the same level of preparation (not that they were to begin with; some were junkyard motors, some were built to the limit of the rules).

For a better overall understanding of what will work for you as a potential HC competitor, you should look at multiple race results in your area and try to get a better understanding from that. Know too that just because one engine might be dominant at one track does not mean it will be the same at another track. High-speed tracks tend to cater to different powerbands than low-speed technical tracks, as one example.

You should also consider what you are willing to do as far as motor preparation goes. Are you the type to throw one in, mild tune, and go? Or do you test each little thing along the way to identify exactly what works and what doesn't? Budget concerns play into that as well.



On another note about the B20B vs. B20Z, Jeremy, I thought the B20B was not allowed to use the higher compression PHK pistons? Is that incorrect?

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

That is incorrect.
The B20B came in the JDM with the PHK pistons, so it IS legal to use the PHK pistons. Likewise, the B20B also came with the P8R head, so it's allowed.

The B20B1/Z never came with the P8R head, so you can't use it on that bottom end code.

That's the reason for the difference.

Re: dyno results from H2 Nationals 2010?
 

but.. if there is already an established weight penalty for the head and all blocks can use the same cr and cams, why is it relevant what block you put it on?

I've become kinda glad that HC is nonexistent here, forcing me into classes with point systems (if ever I am able to do competitive racing). I'm overly logically minded and some of the HC stuff warps my brain.