amoebiasis

Hello. I have run head on into some serious issues during a new LMA install on my JDM ITR swapped civic and I need help. I'll give as much detail as possible. {See post 2 for short version}

For a while now my engine has been making some loud tapping coming from the head. The noise didn't go away after two valve adjustments, so I figured it was the old LMAs. I got the Skunk2 LMAs (the new style) and installed them yesterday. Apart from the install taking me much longer than I expected (all day) I didn't have any major issues. When I went to start it, it wouldn't start and felt like it wasn't "hitting" hard enough, i.e. no compression. Since it was late I left it for today.

The first thing I checked was the cam gears. Sure enough it seems like the timing belt slipped...alot. One cam gear was about 90deg out from the other. I tripled checked the belt tension and TDC before I put everything back together so I do not know how it slipped but it did. Worrying about bent valves, I immediately loosened the cam covers and removed the dizzy to let the cams sit freely on top of the valves. I then went through the process of removing the crank pully, belt cover, etc and removed the timing belt. I realigned everything to TDC, reinstalled the belt, and put everything back together. I noticed that afterwards that the TDC mark on the crank pulley was a little to the left of the mark on the cover but I had it lined up with the mark on the oil pump perfectly. I do not know if it was like this before.

I tried to start it and still wouldn't start but felt better. I then checked the compression and found out the problem (in order 1-4):60, 60, 150, 240 psi.

I checked the compression not long ago and got 250 on all cylinders. I rechecked the timing belt and cam gears and they seem to be fine and didn't slip, however the TDC on the crank pulley seems to be a little farther off, however I am not sure. Maybe the crank slipped a tooth?

I am at a lost as what to do next and I need help. What do you guys think it is? Did I bend the valves when the pulley slipped? Did I somehow blow the head gasket? I will continue to search for solutions/advice. This is my DD and I need it up an running asap. Plus I live at an apartment complex so I do not know how long I can leave my car in the maintenance area. Thank you everyone in advance.

amoebiasis

The above is pretty long so TL:DR:

After LMA install on B18cR, the cam gears slipped after starting, ending up 90deg off from each other. I removed and reinstalled the timing belt and tried starting it again. Still didn't start. I checked the compression and got 60, 60, 150, & 240 psi (in order 1-4). The cam gears line up but the TDC mark on the crank pulley is a little to the left of the mark on the cover.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

B_Swapped93

strange that 3/4 are bad and the 4th one is good. confirm the bottom end is at TDC by putting a long pencil down the spark plug tube spin the engine by hand and see if the top and bottom are at tdc. once confirmed leakdown test>then go from there off the bat i'd say bent valves....shouldn't be bent just from that tho. would replace the t belt btw and make sure the cam gear bolts are TQ'd to spec.

amoebiasis

Thanks for the help. I did confirm with a long screwdriver that the bottom end is at TDC with the cams, however it seems like it reaches TDC first and stays there then drops after the cams have passed TDC. Do you think it is reaching TDC too soon? I believe I am going to take the crank pulley back off (have to to replace the belt anyway) and see how the TDC mark lines up on the oil pump. From what I read the one on the cover isn't that accurate. Maybe after rotating the crank that first time and tensioning the belt threw the crank off a little from the cams. I can't remember if I rechecked the TDC marks on the oil pump or not.

Looking at advance they have two belts, one at $21 and one at $81. Any difference in the two? Im short on cash at the moment and the $21 is looking good. As far as the leakdown test goes I do not have an air compressor and do not have access to an outlet where my car is anyway. I would have to have it towed to a shop and would like to keep that as a last resort if possible.

amoebiasis

So I installed a new timing belt. All of the TDC marks were dead on, maybe the old one was stretched a little. Either way still no start. Compression test shows same numbers. Does this confirm that the valves are bent? Are there any other explanations?

What are your recommendations? Should I take the head into a machine shop and let them fix it or should I try to find a new head? I would take this time as an excuse to building a performance head but I don't currently have the money.

amoebiasis

There is no way the LMAs could be interfering is there?

halfakneegrow

Did you do a valve adjustment after install?

amoebiasis

Honestly I didn't even think of it. I''ll check it but I can't see how it could be so far off as causing my issues. I haven't started taking the head off yet but that is my next step right now. Currently looking for a place to work on my car instead of the parking lot.

halfakneegrow

if the adjustment is too tight that could be the problem. well keep us updated and good luck

amoebiasis

Thanks for the suggestion but it looks like that's not it. The clearance was a little tight, mostly on the intake side but it didn't affect the compression after I adjusted it. I'm going to start taking the head off. I'll keep you updated.

amoebiasis

So here's an update I thought I would share. I wanted to take off the cam gears to check to see if maybe the gears slipped and sheared throught that key (happened before on my old d16) I ended up breaking the intake gear.

Just a fyi to everyone, don't try to take off the gear with a breaker bar and vice grips. The gears ended up being fine by the way.

amoebiasis

Finished taking off the head. Here are the pics.















I haven't inspected them very closely yet but if they were bent shouldn't it be pretty obvious? I'll take another set of pics after I clean everything up.

kyden

did you bother to do a leakdown test?

Cynical 1

pull the cams out of the head (probably still out) and lie the head upside down so the valves/chambers are on top. fill each combustion chamber with water and see if any leak - should hold water for several days if no leakage. if it leaks out quickly, or overnight, that is the chamber with bent valves...

you can also use mineral oil, etc instead of water. just has to be very thin.

amoebiasis

I wasn't able to do a leakdown test due to the fact my car is currently sitting in the middle of the parking lot at my apartment complex, i.e. no power. Plus I didn't want to tow it to a shop.

I saw that method of testing on a couple of different sites and am planning on doing when I get home today after work. I''ll let you know what I find out.

Thanks again for the help.

kyden

so it is easier to pull the head? that doesn't make any sense. why not actually diagnose the problem before taking stuff apart?

amoebiasis

I did, through a process of elimination. I didn't see any reason to shell out $150 to have my car towed plus the cost of the test then to pay to have it towed back when I was confident that bent valves is the most likely explanation. Plus taking the head off wasn't that big of a job. I think it only took me about 4 hrs. So for me it was more of a matter of cost vs work I was willing to do.

amoebiasis

Currently doing the "water test". I saw water leaking out of the exhaust valves on cylinder number 1 almost immediately. After about an hour the water is almost all gone and cylinder number 2 is on its way as well. Here is a pic after about an hour:



Its hard to tell from the pic, but cylinder 1 is almost dry, 2 has most of it, you can see the water line crossing the valves, and cylinders 3 and 4 are still holding all of their water so far. If you look at the bottom in the exhaust ports, you can see the water coming out. Cylinder 3 is starting to leak as well. I will leave it overnight and check it tomorrow.

Cynical 1

looks like you have found the source of your leakdown...

amoebiasis

Checked it this morning and all the water is gone from 1&2 and most of 3. Cylinder 4 is leaking as well but not as much as the others. Now to find some valves.