Import Al

Any H-T'ers out there running an H or B-swap with an automatic? It sounds like a fun recipe for making the project '93 Civic DX hatch quickish, N/A & still keep the precious luxury of a slushbox.

And before I get 9276.3 replies on how uneconomical or hard this would be, I'd like to hear from someone who has done this, attempted it or knows someone running a swapped Civic with an auto. I have 2 manual trans cars (GS-R, EJ1) so if I wanted to rip through some gears I'd drive either one of those. It just would be awesome to have an N/A auto Civic that could pull a low 14 or better, full interior... I have seen plenty of quick turbo auto Civics, Integras & Preludes but want try something even less practical here lol.

If you've got one, post your set up & what you think about it!

SwapKing0917

I Don't have one but personaly all that power and staying automatic
is it worth the hassle?

Import Al

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SwapKing0917 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I Don't have one but personally all that power and staying automatic
is it worth the hassle?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well to my crazy ***.. yes. These are my goals: Stay auto, reliable, get OK gas mileage (28+ mpg hwy,) & crack 13's N/A without spending a silly % higher than you would doing the same with a manual conversion in a '93 DX hb.

I could manual swap, build a HMT D16 and hit the mileage, reliability, & speed goals easily for under $3k.. but it would be no where near as cool or unique to me. That is what our scene lacks in my area. I know Honda engines need to remain in their powerband to be affective. Strong autos are expensive & waste more power before reaching the wheels, which is are 1 of many reasons why fast auto Hondas are rarer than honest politicians.

Here's my fantasy setup for N/A 13's while staying auto:

'93 Civic DX auto hatch
JDM H22A
Euro-R or aftermarket intake manifold
Phenolic "Hondata" style IM gasket
Level 10 PTS BULLET PROOF TRANSMISSION 94-95 Integra auto trans (Holds 600+ whp)
Evolution Industries H2B conversion kit (mix & match here, don't need half of it..)
modified stock engine wiring harness
H2B street header
3" H-swap hybrid intake
2.5" mandrel-bent piping, Apeix'i WS2 muffler, no bling tip.
Tuned P06 ECU w/S300, Neptune.. even an AEM EMS... whatever software supports autos..?
100 lbs or so weight reduction, car is full interior & equipment as of now.

I think that would do it with traction of course. A bolt on, IM'ed, tuned JDM H22A usually makes just below to sometimes an even 200 whp... And seeing as Prelude autos with the above setup go mid 15's with a good 60' time, I dont see why a 500 lb lighter setup with a built tranny wont hit at least 13.99's.

Who's with me? A fast N/A, auto H2B Civic would be sick.... Right? The 1/4 mile time consistency would be sweet; the domestic guys shouldn't be the only ones having a blast without a clutch pedal!

skunked

I always thought this would be a pretty cool sleeper. I'm sure a B series would bolt up if you used 94-01 integra auto mounts. The only thing I was questioning in my mind was the potential of the tranny frame mount being different on the auto....? Pretty easy to weld a new one on though.

The H22 would be a much more difficult task, I'm not sure if the trany would clear the frame rail.

Import Al

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skunked &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only thing I was questioning in my mind was the potential of the tranny frame mount being different on the auto....? Pretty easy to weld a new one on though.

The H22 would be a much more difficult task, I'm not sure if the trany would clear the frame rail. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's my concern too.. fitment. I'm not attempting this right now, but am trying to see if this has been done before. It looks like I'd be a pioneer with an automatic H2B. I don't want to use an H22 auto trans due to driveline geometry, ground clearance, weight & replacement availability. (I see far more B series autos for sale than H's.)

If the H series auto could be used without too much work, there are factory LSD JDM units with considerably better gearing than any USDM B auto.

The most feasible setup looks to be an auto B-series swap since DC's & 5G Civics are siblings so this setup should be straightforward. It's just very interesting how the Honda crowd shuns autos SO much more than Toyota or Nissan guys & infinitely more than GM, Ford, or Chrysler hot rodders. I'd like to try & change that, but I'll need to keep saving & learning. Thanks for the input.

CRAZY-EG9

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Import Al &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's my concern too.. fitment. I'm not attempting this right now, but am trying to see if this has been done before. It looks like I'd be a pioneer with an automatic H2B. I don't want to use an H22 auto trans due to driveline geometry, ground clearance, weight & replacement availability. (I see far more B series autos for sale than H's.)

If the H series auto could be used without too much work, there are factory LSD JDM units with considerably better gearing than any USDM B auto.

The most feasible setup looks to be an auto B-series swap since DC's & 5G Civics are siblings so this setup should be straightforward. It's just very interesting how the Honda crowd shuns autos SO much more than Toyota or Nissan guys & infinitely more than GM, Ford, or Chrysler hot rodders. I'd like to try & change that, but I'll need to keep saving & learning. Thanks for the input. </TD></TR></TABLE>
My boy put an automatic LS swap in his girlfriends 92 CX hatch and it did an 18 sec 1/4 mile at English Town Raceway park.

Also I always thought about doing that to my beater/delivery car too with a B20 and a Auto JDM B16 tranny just to have enough torque to get through traffic.

Import Al

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRAZY-EG9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My boy put an automatic LS swap in his girlfriends 92 CX hatch and it did an 18 sec 1/4 mile at English Town Raceway park.

Also I always thought about doing that to my beater/delivery car too with a B20 and a Auto JDM B16 tranny just to have enough torque to get through traffic. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Woah that's slow.. The Honda Fit Sport auto would smoke that with its mad tyte 5-speed manumatic But considering it had the crazy tall LS auto ratios I'm not too surprised. Yeah, a B20, CRVtec or H22 auto sounds like a more flexible daily driver since you NEED all the torque you can scrounge up when you have 4 tall auto gears.. But I still want to make this happen. Thanks for your reply!

skunked

My only concern with the H2B auto would be the starter postion and midshaft unless they bolt up the same as the manual?

The QSD kit would be perfect for this setup since it comes with a crank spacer, you may have to use oem manual flywheel bolts with it instead of the extended ARP's (designed for a manual flywheel). This would be an OG setup for sure.

CRAZY-EG9

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Import Al &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Woah that's slow.. The Honda Fit Sport auto would smoke that with its mad tyte 5-speed manumatic But considering it had the crazy tall LS auto ratios I'm not too surprised. Yeah, a B20, CRVtec or H22 auto sounds like a more flexible daily driver since you NEED all the torque you can scrounge up when you have 4 tall auto gears.. But I still want to make this happen. Thanks for your reply! </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah that is definatly slow but like you said most likely thos LS auto gears caused it. I feel with a B20 with a B16 auto tranny it will atlleast get a high 15 which is good for an automatic grocery getter because stock auto Civics I think do about 20 seconds
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skunked &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My only concern with the H2B auto would be the starter postion and midshaft unless they bolt up the same as the manual?

The QSD kit would be perfect for this setup since it comes with a crank spacer, you may have to use oem manual flywheel bolts with it instead of the extended ARP's (designed for a manual flywheel). This would be an OG setup for sure.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah I know for a fact the auto halfshafts are different. I think the starters are too. That would be the only problem.

skunked

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRAZY-EG9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yeah I know for a fact the auto halfshafts are different. I think the starters are too. That would be the only problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The QSD H2B plate has a notch for the starter so this is something you would have to work out. As long as the auto midshaft bolts up like a manual at the back of the block this shouldn't be an issue.

couple pics for reference:


B series midshaft bolted up to the QSD adapter


Reversed starter bolt, the plate has a notch for the head to slide into (see next pic)

CRAZY-EG9

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skunked &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The QSD H2B plate has a notch for the starter so this is something you would have to work out. As long as the auto midshaft bolts up like a manual at the back of the block this shouldn't be an issue.

couple pics for reference:


B series midshaft bolted up to the QSD adapter

The bolt pattern isn't different, the angle is because I remember a while back I bought an auto halfshaft from the junkyard they told me it was the same and it wasn't. It wouldn't line up with the tranny and block.

Reversed starter bolt, the plate has a notch for the head to slide into (see next pic)


</TD></TR></TABLE>

RotiEatter

iTrader: (1)

The only H22 Auto swap worth having would in a Honda Odyssey. At least its worth bragging about being a H22 Auto swap. Any other Honda car with an automatic H22 would pretty much just be waste of money and a bigger waste of talent.

Import Al

Man, thanks a ton skunked & CRAZY-EG9! Now this really doesn't seem to daunting a task, just figure out how to place the starter & probably a custom intermediate shaft & guide/mount bracket that attaches to the block.

The mechanics of this swap might be the easy part, since tuning an auto ECU is pretty unheard of. Gotta go to work now, but anyone here know what companies' software supports autos? (Hondata, Neptune, Crome, Zdyne, AEM etc.?)

Import Al

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RotiEatter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only H22 Auto swap worth having would in a Honda Odyssey. At least its worth bragging about being a H22 Auto swap. Any other Honda car with an automatic H22 would pretty much just be waste of money and a bigger waste of talent. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Really? Everyone here knows or should know it won't be as fast or economical as a manual trans swap, but thats really not the point. Its to have something different AND convenient.. Going bumper to bumper in Bay Area traffic for 5 hours with a stage IV clutch sucks.

Also, I think it would feel that much better after you ran somebody at the track, ran a winning low 14 to high 13 and pulled back in to the staging lanes to show them your setup.. The rival driver (Hopefully a cocky Mustang owner) scans your setup but sees no tach, clutch or shifter.. Wait a minute.. It can't BE.. I lost to a freakin' Civic AUTO!?! NOOO!!1 Or in picture form for younger H-T'ers:

F4MzEkSOL

i so so needs this setup for my domani acura el build i went down to la twice stuck in traffic for about an hour with to be steppin on da EFFIN clutch shiet was painful omg

darkblackH2B

H2B, one of the sickest setups out there right now.

94EG8

Automatic H2B swap will probably never happen for the following reasons:

1)You have to deal with the flexplate, with the manual H2B setup they use a flywheel spacer, you'll have to do something here (this part should be doable though)
2)You will have clearance issues, Automatic B-series in a 5th gen reportedly requires some frame massaging, the H2B kit is making a bad situation even worse moving everything over another inch or 2. Besides the fact that the H22 is probably sitting over a little closer to the passenger's side than a B-series would be I see large amounts of frame rail needing to be cut out.
3)As far as I can tell you'll never be able to get an ECU/TCM to run the damn thing.

As far as why the honda guys hate automatics, Honda makes some of the slickest shifting manual transmissions you can buy, and make some pretty shitty automatics comparitively. From a personal perspective I just hate automatics, doesn't matter what they're in and i've driven tons of stuff from hondas to toyotas to fords to GMs to VWs. If hasn't got 3 pedals I wont even look at it.

F4MzEkSOL

yes 5 speed is fun to drive but not stuck in traffic its not fun at all, try driving 600 miles and den get stuff in traffic -_-

F4MzEkSOL

based on what i see QSD KIT should have a higher chance of working since its uses all of the original mounts but who knows some day it might happen plus QSD is from where i live anyways

fin781

do it. ive been hooked on the H2B swaps since ive heard of them. im not interested in doing one but it just shows the beauty of honda's engines being used with each other. good luck with it, definatly keep us up on it and dont give up.