johnny mittens

Recently changed my oil (filter was practically welded on )and replaced with Fram filter. I have since seen "the kid " dis Fram filters twice. I would gladly change out the Fram if anyone else agrees with what he is saying. How could Fram sell a harmfull product? And is there really a flap that closes the (Honda)oil filter from draining? And is the flap only in Honda filters? Why wouldn't the "flap" be advertised as an advantage by Honda?... I don't want to harm my baby. It may grow up retarded.

The-Kid

Hey thats me!!! Well I learn from other people, Fram had some defect in the anti drain back valve. I used Frams for many years. I had no problems, but I just don't want to take a chance. Buy Bosch or something. Here is a link I found at this site http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw....html

Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circuilating through my system. The oil passge to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it.

Fram Double Guard
Another bad filter idea brought to you by your friends at Fram. The filter itself is a slightly improved design over the Fram Extra Guard, but still uses the same filter element. It has a silicone anti-drainback valve, a quality pressure releif valve, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The big problem is that they are trying to cash in on the Slick 50 craze. They impregnate the filter element with bits of Teflon like that found in Slick 50. As with Slick 50, Teflon is a solid and does not belong in an engine. It cannot get into the parts of the engine that oil can and therefore does nothing. Also, as the filter gets dirty, it ends up filtering the Teflon right out. Dupont (the manufacturer of Teflon) does not recommend Teflon for use in internal combustion engines. Please do not waste your money on this filter.

eL

What non-honda filters do you recommend?

LSVTEC 91 Civic

Purolator Pure one or Wix filters.

Honda Toko Royi (sp?) aka S2000 filters are nice too.

The-Kid

So far, I used Bosch Oil Filters. I really liked it. I'm going to try Mobil One next time.

Turbo(less)DB8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What non-honda filters do you recommend?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why? do you not like the honda filters? They're very good and cheap.

johnny mittens

Excellent answer kid. thanks

APEX CRX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo(less)DB8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Why? do you not like the honda filters? They're very good and cheap. </TD></TR></TABLE>

because they are supposedly made by Fram now

bravo831

theres nothing wrong with fram, i work at autozone and ive cut on open theres nothing wrong with them, filters and other important products have to be aproved bye different companys ownd bye the goverment,

dank24

I have used fram my whole life, and the life of my cars. There is nothing wrong with them at all.

over_

There is a bit more to a "honda" oil filter, this is a compilation of some things i wrote on another forum, hope its usefull info..

Ive always used honda filters because my dad was a mechanic at honda years back...he told me that the cheap fram filters are a waste of time.. well now i know why not to use a typcal fram filter, they are poorly constructed. Some belive they alow greater oil pressure, ok, that may be true - because instead of geting filtered, its going right throught the cardboard endcap and plastic bypass valve..... :shock:


there are some things to know about honda filters. One there are -to my knowledge 4 types...

1) pre '88 hondas - larger screw bore size

2) post '88 honda (civics, accords, preludes, NOT s2000) pt. NO. 15400-PLM-A01 (A02) - typical honda oil filter, built by fram with the construction specifications by honda

3) post '88 honda (civics, accords, preludes, etc.. AND s2000) pt NO. 15400 -PCX-004 - This filter is made by a reputable factory known as Toyo Roki of Japan. Some say better look into the comparison below

4) filter for the NSX

here is a comparison of the 2 oil filters one non s2000 with the one for the s2000, and another Denso filter

http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/...91911

id like to hear your opinions, and perhaps what you use in you cars

edit:
the 15400-PLM-A02 is the ceap version fram, same as the cheap fram! so perhaps there are 5 types of honda oil filters the A02 obviously fram-incogneto.... i will be purchasing the PLM-A01, and PCX tomorrow and see what the labeling on the housing says....

http://theoildrop.server101.co...50421

----------------------------------

http://effinmotorworks.com/Filters.htm

this is another article that compares the HAMP filter, mnufactured by toyo roki, AKA pcx-004...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OEM Honda Filters Observations (Nov 2001)
For anyone that hasn't been following along...Honda is using new oil filters in North America. These are made by Honeywell according to the case, which is noteably smaller. I'm curious on the "new" manufacturer. Honeywell is a division of Allied Signal that, among other things, owns Fram. Is it a rebadged Fram? Honda has been using their own spec Fram(made in Canada) and Filtech(made in the USA) for several years now. The merits of a smaller filter are still up for debate and finding the large filters is getting harder by the day

Honda also specifies a filter for the s2000 that is different from the rest of the Hondas (p/n 15400-PCX-004). It is manufactured by Toyo-Roki. Dimensionally, it is still the same size as the large standard OEM filter. This new filter still fits all the same models. Shopping around has turned these up for around $6.50.
Honda sells three levels of parts in Japan, if I recall correctly. From cheapest to most expensive, they have OEM original parts(HOP), aftermarket parts(HAMP) and racing parts(Hyper). The HAMP filters are available through several importers. They used to be reasonably priced but I can't find them for anything under $9 now (or in stock).The HAMP filters are also made by Toyo-Roki.

After reading several online filter studies, Mike and I decided cut a few filters open. We found a few interesting things.
HAMP and the OEM s2000 filter are identical down to the end cap on the filter media. The end caps are metal. The spring/valve is bonded to the end cap.
The Honda spec Fram uses cardboard end caps. The bypass valve isn't even fastened to the end cap, it falls right out once the housing is removed. The spring/valve is a little easier to push open. The filters metal housing is also marginally thinner.
For curiosity's sake, we split open an off the shelf Fram Double Guard. It was made even more poorly then the Honda/Fram. The Double Guard has teflon on the media...Mike joked this was to keep dirt from bonding to the filter. Same cardboard end caps, but less filter media and even softer spring/valve.

So my personal opinions/observations?
I'm not going to discuss Fram quality with anyone anymore...my mind is made up. They suck.
Fram users keep your testimonials to yourself. If you don't like my observations, cut your own open and tell me why they're great filters. Mike has still been using Fram but after we were done here, he threw the Fram filters he had in the trash.
Why does the s2000 need a different filter? Why don't the new standard filters measure up to the s2000? Will they measure up for us? Right now, they seem like a good alternative to the HAMP filters and a better choice then the standard large OEM Honda filters.
</TD></TR></TABLE>





<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OEM Honda Filters Observations (July 2005)
Awhile back, we reviewed some of the differences in Hondas large oem filter. With the exception of the s2000 filter (p/n 15400-PCX-004) the large style filter is no longer available. But that's okay…because if you want to run a large filter, that's the one you want. Check out our earlier article to see why. http://www.effinmotorworks.com/Filters.htm

Since roughly 2000, Honda started phasing in a smaller sized standard filter. I haven't found a consistent answer as to why, or what the benefits are, so I'll keep wild speculations and hearsay to myself. If you want to run the smaller filter, you have a couple options:
15400-PLM-A01 (FILTECH-TOYO ROKI)
15400-PLM-A02 (HONEYWELL)
15400-PLC-004 (TOYO ROKI)
current standard
current standard
No longer manufactured, might be in a local dealers stock

We decided it was time to put these smaller filters under the same examination as before. I got my hands on the oem Honeywell and Filtech filters. I couldn't find a Toyo Roki…so as a substitute; I used a small style HAMP filter. In our last comparison, we found the large HAMP to be the exact same filter as the s2000 Toyo Roki. I was hoping this would be true again.
The Honeywell and Filtech came factory shrink-wrapped with Honda p/n stickers on them. The HAMP came in a cardboard box. I wasn't expecting to find a noticeable difference before I even started cutting…but I did. The Filtech and HAMP were fine, but the Honeywell had this brown goo gunk around the inner lip of the filter. And the finish was not smooth around the edge of the lip. I can't say if this is consistent with all of their filters (because I only had this one) but I get the impression their quality control leaves something to be desired.


Once the filters were cut open, I found a few things that surprised me and a couple things I expected. Here's a layout of all three filters:



• Bad news first…we've speculated that the Honeywell filter was, in fact, a Fram filter. Allied Signal owns Honeywell and they also own Fram. And after looking at the guts of the Honeywell, it is indeed a Fram filter. Cardboard end caps on the media and a cheap plastic bypass valve pressed onto the cardboard with an inexpensive wedge. The filtering media has improved a little but still falls short of the other two filters.

• What I expected…the Toyo Roki HAMP had excellent construction. The bypass valve was a sturdy metal design that pressed on to the end of the media with a nice seal. Despite being even shorter then the two oem filters, I wouldn't hesitate to use it on my car.

• What surprised me…the Filtech p/n is listed as "Filtech-Toyo Roki". The case just says "Filtech". Once inside, the construction is nearly identical to the HAMP. The length of filter media is a little longer and of a slightly fuzzier consistency, but everything else was the same. Even the bypass valve was the exact same piece. I'm guessing there was some collaboration between the two companies?

Now, does any of this really matter?
Its really up to you. The Honeywell filter is, in my "expert" opinion, crap. The Filtech filter is pretty decent.
Some will argue that a filter is just a filter. Even if that was true, they cost the same. Why not ask for what could be a better quality filter?
1</TD></TR></TABLE>


Modified by OVNI_CIVIC at 10:21 AM 9/8/2007

DiRT!

^ good find

b20xx

FILTECH-TOYO ROKI is owned by Toyo Roki, honeywell owns fram. fram filters suck... that glue crap alone is the last thing i want in my engine. the s2000 filter has been serving me and most of my friends for a long time. kinde like putting autolites in a engine lol

rivergod56

so if i were to go to the honda dealer tommorrow 09/10/2007 and get an oil change for my fit, with an oem honda filter, is it a fram?? and an s2000 filter, if its better, fit on my Fit?

over_

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rivergod56 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so if i were to go to the honda dealer tommorrow 09/10/2007 and get an oil change for my fit, with an oem honda filter, is it a fram?? and an s2000 filter, if its better, fit on my Fit?</TD></TR></TABLE>

if it says Honeywell on the side it is the same as a Fram oil filter.
If it says Toyo Roki, it is the good quality of the same as Hamp.
If it says Filtec it also is of good quality to the likings of Wix filters.

louie3252

Oil filters... All made of paper, I work for Mercedes Benz. And service intervals are far apart around 7500-10000 miles on oil changes. The older style cars used some honda like oil filters, and the paper pleets deterated, causing paper to clog oil passages= motor. Benz now uses fleece on their fitlers, and its a cartridge type. Oil filter selection is up to you, but I recommend regular oil changes ( every 3k or so) i ran wix/ napa on my type R for a long time w/ no problems

020

Has anyone checked out the Wal Mart filters? they appear to be made by the same compan that makes mobil one filters. Also, that write-up is good. I have never heard of Hamp or toyo-roki. Where are they sold?

rivergod56

ok, all this talk about frams is scaring the !@#$ outta me. i will not be using frams anymore. btw, did someone say that stp filters are the same as bosch? they are cheaper at the the local autozone. i got me a mobil 1 filter this time tho, with these fits going 6k or so before hitting 15% i want the one that will hold up the longest, sounds like a mobil to me.

cheap2

now i know

gourley

Good info. Will think twice about a fram filter.

LSVTEC 91 Civic

Nice!

The-Kid

Awesome post. Hmmm..... It makes me feel like opening a Bosch oil filter. I guess I got a new filter that I like. HAMP!

edit. I guess Bosch is using FILTECH's technology too. Hmmm

marshun

so my h22 can use a S2k filter?

i havent ever really looked around for comparison articles like that. this thread is awesome.

EDIT! googled it and i found out i can. im due for an oil change too. yayz!

rivergod56

i just opened my mobil 1 filter that is supposed to be pretty good, but it only had 6 holes unlike the filtech with 8. maybe the holes are bigger but still.... anyone have concerns on this?

marshun

anyone cut open and review an amsoil filter? i like the idea of the 1yr/25k mile oil change