Turbo B16B ??
07-11-2007, 09:47 PM
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Turbo B16B ??
Are these good motors to turbo? Does the head flow well? Is the block to small, will i be better of putting mt type r head on a different block. I wanted to turbo this because i want to build something that could rev high. Comments and constructive criticism would be helpful.
07-11-2007, 10:43 PM
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Re: Turbo B16B ?? (jimbrown)
well why spend the extra money on a B16B if you wanna turbo it? A B16A will rev just as high. Get some decent valve springs, and you can rev higher than the CTR (with stock B16A cams). Not to say you'll make power at higher revs....but you can rev higher since the B16A will have the same stroke, but smaller cam lobes. Same head casting.
The B16B is choice over the B16A if you're looking for a close to stock or stock NA platform. If you're turboing it, get the cheapest version you can. Blow up, rinse, repeat.
The B16B is choice over the B16A if you're looking for a close to stock or stock NA platform. If you're turboing it, get the cheapest version you can. Blow up, rinse, repeat.
07-11-2007, 11:03 PM
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The CTR uses low displacement but a very high compression ratio to obtain the numbers it has.
If you use a CTR motor you're going to need to lower the compression or use race fuel. It's got like a 10.8:1 CR, you already need to run the thing on 93 octane to keep it from misfiring, put boost thrhough there and you'll be preigniting at 3k RPM. So you'd have to swap out the internals for low compression ones.
Unless you wanna build the motor completely to hold 500whp or so in which case you'll have to swap out the internals - but if you're going there you might as well just just go with an LS or a B16a and save some money.
B16B = B16A w/ higher comp. Yeah people will tell you that the cams are more aggressive but when you boil it down with the higher comp needed to allow more air in when VTEC engages is the only reason for a longer lift duration.
So you're basically just jerkin off if ur gonna buy a B16B motor to boost and pull out all the stock internals.
You'd be better off buying a B16A motor, drop some CTR cams in there, and turbocharge it, bim bam boom, you have a turbo charged B16 for a lot less $.
If you use a CTR motor you're going to need to lower the compression or use race fuel. It's got like a 10.8:1 CR, you already need to run the thing on 93 octane to keep it from misfiring, put boost thrhough there and you'll be preigniting at 3k RPM. So you'd have to swap out the internals for low compression ones.
Unless you wanna build the motor completely to hold 500whp or so in which case you'll have to swap out the internals - but if you're going there you might as well just just go with an LS or a B16a and save some money.
B16B = B16A w/ higher comp. Yeah people will tell you that the cams are more aggressive but when you boil it down with the higher comp needed to allow more air in when VTEC engages is the only reason for a longer lift duration.
So you're basically just jerkin off if ur gonna buy a B16B motor to boost and pull out all the stock internals.
You'd be better off buying a B16A motor, drop some CTR cams in there, and turbocharge it, bim bam boom, you have a turbo charged B16 for a lot less $.
07-12-2007, 05:45 AM
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Re: (Syndacate)
^^^ what syndacate said is true. Do you already have this motor? You've got the right idea as far as boosting the motor, but the B16b shouldn't be your choice of motor unless you already have it. But really, depending on how far you're taking your turbo application, you may or may not need to mess w/ internals. For high whp cars, you're going to need to have the pistons, rods, sleeves. There are alot of ppl running nice numbers with stock internals, but for a compltely reliable car, a good tune is essential. So how high of numbers are you wanting to put down???
07-12-2007, 07:15 AM
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Re: (Boost_V)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boost_V »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^^^ what syndacate said is true. Do you already have this motor? You've got the right idea as far as boosting the motor, but the B16b shouldn't be your choice of motor unless you already have it. But really, depending on how far you're taking your turbo application, you may or may not need to mess w/ internals. For high whp cars, you're going to need to have the pistons, rods, sleeves. There are alot of ppl running nice numbers with stock internals, but for a compltely reliable car, a good tune is essential. So how high of numbers are you wanting to put down???</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wouldn't even boost if it he had it lying around.
Sell it and buy a B16a2, CTR cams if ya really want, and turbocharge it - you'll basically break even and can run up to around 300whp on stock internals if it's tuned right
.
I wouldn't even boost if it he had it lying around.
Sell it and buy a B16a2, CTR cams if ya really want, and turbocharge it - you'll basically break even and can run up to around 300whp on stock internals if it's tuned right
.
07-12-2007, 07:45 AM
#7
Re: (Syndacate)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The CTR uses low displacement but a very high compression ratio to obtain the numbers it has.
If you use a CTR motor you're going to need to lower the compression or use race fuel. It's got like a 10.8:1 CR, you already need to run the thing on 93 octane to keep it from misfiring, put boost thrhough there and you'll be preigniting at 3k RPM. So you'd have to swap out the internals for low compression ones.
Unless you wanna build the motor completely to hold 500whp or so in which case you'll have to swap out the internals - but if you're going there you might as well just just go with an LS or a B16a and save some money.
B16B = B16A w/ higher comp. Yeah people will tell you that the cams are more aggressive but when you boil it down with the higher comp needed to allow more air in when VTEC engages is the only reason for a longer lift duration.
So you're basically just jerkin off if ur gonna buy a B16B motor to boost and pull out all the stock internals.
You'd be better off buying a B16A motor, drop some CTR cams in there, and turbocharge it, bim bam boom, you have a turbo charged B16 for a lot less $.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most of what he said is false. Here's the truth:
CTR=B18C5 block with custom crank, rods. The head is the same as a B16A2 with factory headwork, cams, valvesprings.
The compression is 11.1:1 IIRC.
There's no need to swap out the internals for lower boost levels. Higher boost levels, however, yes. There's plenty of turbocharged ITRs running around. Even a few turbo CTRs. Look up SN EK9 BEZZLER.
Again, the CTR block is NOT the B16A block. It's the ITR/GSR block. Write that down. And yes, the cams are a good bit more aggressive than stock B16A cams. Look it up, trust me.
For the high C/R, tuning is the key to engine longevity. However, if you already have the motor, remove the rotating assembly, put a GSR rotating assembly in(because it's a 1.8L block), and you've got a 1.8. Then turbo it.
If you don't already have it, get the B16A.
If you use a CTR motor you're going to need to lower the compression or use race fuel. It's got like a 10.8:1 CR, you already need to run the thing on 93 octane to keep it from misfiring, put boost thrhough there and you'll be preigniting at 3k RPM. So you'd have to swap out the internals for low compression ones.
Unless you wanna build the motor completely to hold 500whp or so in which case you'll have to swap out the internals - but if you're going there you might as well just just go with an LS or a B16a and save some money.
B16B = B16A w/ higher comp. Yeah people will tell you that the cams are more aggressive but when you boil it down with the higher comp needed to allow more air in when VTEC engages is the only reason for a longer lift duration.
So you're basically just jerkin off if ur gonna buy a B16B motor to boost and pull out all the stock internals.
You'd be better off buying a B16A motor, drop some CTR cams in there, and turbocharge it, bim bam boom, you have a turbo charged B16 for a lot less $.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most of what he said is false. Here's the truth:
CTR=B18C5 block with custom crank, rods. The head is the same as a B16A2 with factory headwork, cams, valvesprings.
The compression is 11.1:1 IIRC.
There's no need to swap out the internals for lower boost levels. Higher boost levels, however, yes. There's plenty of turbocharged ITRs running around. Even a few turbo CTRs. Look up SN EK9 BEZZLER.
Again, the CTR block is NOT the B16A block. It's the ITR/GSR block. Write that down. And yes, the cams are a good bit more aggressive than stock B16A cams. Look it up, trust me.
For the high C/R, tuning is the key to engine longevity. However, if you already have the motor, remove the rotating assembly, put a GSR rotating assembly in(because it's a 1.8L block), and you've got a 1.8. Then turbo it.
If you don't already have it, get the B16A.
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07-12-2007, 07:58 AM
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Re: (black_EM1)
I already have the motor in my car. It is relatively stock, i have intake and exhaust. it runs good, no smoke. I didn't to take it out sell it and by a b16a.
07-12-2007, 08:56 AM
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Re: (black_EM1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by black_EM1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Most of what he said is false. Here's the truth:
CTR=B18C5 block with custom crank, rods. The head is the same as a B16A2 with factory headwork, cams, valvesprings.
The compression is 11.1:1 IIRC.
There's no need to swap out the internals for lower boost levels. Higher boost levels, however, yes. There's plenty of turbocharged ITRs running around. Even a few turbo CTRs. Look up SN EK9 BEZZLER.
Again, the CTR block is NOT the B16A block. It's the ITR/GSR block. Write that down. And yes, the cams are a good bit more aggressive than stock B16A cams. Look it up, trust me.
For the high C/R, tuning is the key to engine longevity. However, if you already have the motor, remove the rotating assembly, put a GSR rotating assembly in(because it's a 1.8L block), and you've got a 1.8. Then turbo it.
If you don't already have it, get the B16A. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Which part is false? I never said you CAN'T boost a ITR, K20, or CTR motor, there's tons of people doing it - I'm just saying it's stupid if it's not a track car.
I never said the blocks were the same, I know the B16B and the B18C(R) blocks are the same and it's just the internals - you mis-interpreted what I said and changed it into your own bullshit. I simply said get a B16a2/3 block or something and if he really wants the extra kick put ITR or CTR cams in it and he should have a good setup.
Why a B16a2/3 setup instead of a B16b? Internals, YES, you CAN boost motors that are meant for natural aspiration only (higher comp ratio to run all motor), but A) It's harder to tune, B) They blow a lot quicker, and C) You can't boost it too much before you have to use leaded fuel...
You can't run 30psi on an ITR with stock sized forged internals like you can a built D16 with stock size forged internals - you'll be missing like a *****.
My point is simple:
B16B, K20, B18C(R) - all motors made to run high numbers naturally aspirated. They're DESIGNED TO RUN ALL MOTOR. So unless you plan on building up the internals with lower compression con rods and pistons, you're just pulling ur pud over it. Though it's not worth ripping the internals out of a CTR block to turbocharge it, the block will be fine as long as he has it sleeved.
It'd be a lot more economical and to just buy a B16a2/3 or a GSR and boost that.
Don't ******* put words in my mouth, I never said the CTR block was the same as a B16 block, I just said the B16 block was a good alternative than to boost a motor THAT WAS DESIGNED BY HONDA TO DO THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO TO IT.
You can run a ****-ton more hp through a B16 engine w/o detonation than you can a CTR/ITR engine. "But, but, but, I can just swap out the internals" - good, if you plan on swapping out the internals, you're better off doing it on a cheaper block, so you still have a completely intact CTR motor, which you could sell, and completely break even with the turbo build on a B16a or GSR.
for word to mouth insertion 
Most of what he said is false. Here's the truth:
CTR=B18C5 block with custom crank, rods. The head is the same as a B16A2 with factory headwork, cams, valvesprings.
The compression is 11.1:1 IIRC.
There's no need to swap out the internals for lower boost levels. Higher boost levels, however, yes. There's plenty of turbocharged ITRs running around. Even a few turbo CTRs. Look up SN EK9 BEZZLER.
Again, the CTR block is NOT the B16A block. It's the ITR/GSR block. Write that down. And yes, the cams are a good bit more aggressive than stock B16A cams. Look it up, trust me.
For the high C/R, tuning is the key to engine longevity. However, if you already have the motor, remove the rotating assembly, put a GSR rotating assembly in(because it's a 1.8L block), and you've got a 1.8. Then turbo it.
If you don't already have it, get the B16A. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Which part is false? I never said you CAN'T boost a ITR, K20, or CTR motor, there's tons of people doing it - I'm just saying it's stupid if it's not a track car.
I never said the blocks were the same, I know the B16B and the B18C(R) blocks are the same and it's just the internals - you mis-interpreted what I said and changed it into your own bullshit. I simply said get a B16a2/3 block or something and if he really wants the extra kick put ITR or CTR cams in it and he should have a good setup.
Why a B16a2/3 setup instead of a B16b? Internals, YES, you CAN boost motors that are meant for natural aspiration only (higher comp ratio to run all motor), but A) It's harder to tune, B) They blow a lot quicker, and C) You can't boost it too much before you have to use leaded fuel...
You can't run 30psi on an ITR with stock sized forged internals like you can a built D16 with stock size forged internals - you'll be missing like a *****.
My point is simple:
B16B, K20, B18C(R) - all motors made to run high numbers naturally aspirated. They're DESIGNED TO RUN ALL MOTOR. So unless you plan on building up the internals with lower compression con rods and pistons, you're just pulling ur pud over it. Though it's not worth ripping the internals out of a CTR block to turbocharge it, the block will be fine as long as he has it sleeved.
It'd be a lot more economical and to just buy a B16a2/3 or a GSR and boost that.
Don't ******* put words in my mouth, I never said the CTR block was the same as a B16 block, I just said the B16 block was a good alternative than to boost a motor THAT WAS DESIGNED BY HONDA TO DO THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO TO IT.
You can run a ****-ton more hp through a B16 engine w/o detonation than you can a CTR/ITR engine. "But, but, but, I can just swap out the internals" - good, if you plan on swapping out the internals, you're better off doing it on a cheaper block, so you still have a completely intact CTR motor, which you could sell, and completely break even with the turbo build on a B16a or GSR.
for word to mouth insertion
07-12-2007, 09:21 AM
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im sorry but i can not aggree with a b16b being like a regular b16a
cams,intake mani throttle body head is factory ported, exhaust mani diff. pistons diff/rod. crank
these motors put down 150-160 whp bone stock and are a wonder in my head seeing that its a 1.6l.
price wise i do not think they are worth it because you can replicate it with other b16's but like stated other stock b16's do not have the same performance stock... b16b should only be bought if dirt cheap..
oh and you can swap the entire bottom end from a itr or gsr factory parts and make a factory stroker with the b16b making it a 1.8l. this can not be done with regular b16a's cuz of there shorter deck heights
cams,intake mani throttle body head is factory ported, exhaust mani diff. pistons diff/rod. crank
these motors put down 150-160 whp bone stock and are a wonder in my head seeing that its a 1.6l.
price wise i do not think they are worth it because you can replicate it with other b16's but like stated other stock b16's do not have the same performance stock... b16b should only be bought if dirt cheap..
oh and you can swap the entire bottom end from a itr or gsr factory parts and make a factory stroker with the b16b making it a 1.8l. this can not be done with regular b16a's cuz of there shorter deck heights
07-12-2007, 09:22 AM
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OP- here is a link to a similar thread in the FI section...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2033368
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2033368
07-12-2007, 10:31 AM
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Re: (robfrmny21)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by robfrmny21 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im sorry but i can not aggree with a b16b being like a regular b16a
cams,intake mani throttle body head is factory ported, exhaust mani diff. pistons diff/rod. crank
these motors put down 150-160 whp bone stock and are a wonder in my head seeing that its a 1.6l.
price wise i do not think they are worth it because you can replicate it with other b16's but like stated other stock b16's do not have the same performance stock... b16b should only be bought if dirt cheap..
oh and you can swap the entire bottom end from a itr or gsr factory parts and make a factory stroker with the b16b making it a 1.8l. this can not be done with regular b16a's cuz of there shorter deck heights</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, you'd really want a stroker setup if you intend on heavy boost.
cams,intake mani throttle body head is factory ported, exhaust mani diff. pistons diff/rod. crank
these motors put down 150-160 whp bone stock and are a wonder in my head seeing that its a 1.6l.
price wise i do not think they are worth it because you can replicate it with other b16's but like stated other stock b16's do not have the same performance stock... b16b should only be bought if dirt cheap..
oh and you can swap the entire bottom end from a itr or gsr factory parts and make a factory stroker with the b16b making it a 1.8l. this can not be done with regular b16a's cuz of there shorter deck heights</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, you'd really want a stroker setup if you intend on heavy boost
.
07-13-2007, 04:25 AM
#14
Re: (Syndacate)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I never said the blocks were the same,
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, you did.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
B16B = B16A w/ higher comp. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Right there.
You still spout off like you know something. Your H-T degree hasn't taught you ****. Being helpful is one thing. Not knowing what you're talking about is another. So essentially, your response is one big, crying crock of ****. I don't know how you haven't been banned yet.
I never said the blocks were the same,
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, you did.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
B16B = B16A w/ higher comp. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Right there.
You still spout off like you know something. Your H-T degree hasn't taught you ****. Being helpful is one thing. Not knowing what you're talking about is another. So essentially, your response is one big, crying crock of ****. I don't know how you haven't been banned yet.
07-13-2007, 05:54 AM
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Re: (black_EM1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by black_EM1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yes, you did.
Right there.
You still spout off like you know something. Your H-T degree hasn't taught you ****. Being helpful is one thing. Not knowing what you're talking about is another. So essentially, your response is one big, crying crock of ****. I don't know how you haven't been banned yet.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow, *DING DING DING DING*
You've just won the "retard of the year" award!!
It was a figure of speech. What I said "plus" something else had NOTHING to do with the type of block. Like in my personal opinion, GSR = LS + RPM - why do I say this? Because there's like a 5lb/ft tq. difference and the only thing that makes the HP higher of the GSR is the higher redline
. Or B16 = D16 * 2VTEC = It really does, exact same "around town" power - and doesn't pull up hills for **** unless the RPM are high as a kite. It doesn't take off till VTEC engages and u have the throttle through the floorboard.
So now, you quoted it, I'll say it once again:
B16B = B16A + Higher Comp.
I am NOT implying that the blocks are the same, I'm only implying that the only "major" difference between the two motors is the compression ratio. Maybe you see it my way, maybe you don't, but I did NOT, in the LEAST, imply, state, indicate, nor suggest that they were the same blocks.
Now if you have anymore bullshit to spew I suggest you should just PM me about it because this guy's trying to get actual information and doesn't give 2 ***** about your grudge against me. You've stated your opinion, I've stated mine, you've twisted what I said up like a ******* pretzel, now I'm saying "whatever."
PM me if you want to continue your vendetta as you changing whatever I say into bullshit statements isn't even winning you an argument, it's just cluttering a thread.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NightStalker »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LS B18b1 holds boost better IMO</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I agree, LS has a low comp ratio to start with and holds together quite nicely. I've seen quite a few people running close to, at, or slightly over 300whp on stock internals and a good tune. Very good engine to boost IN MY OPINION.
EDIT:
Well iono about the trans, it suffers from the same problem as the Z6/Y8 does in my area, that's at 55mph it's got like, no power (b/c it's only at 2400 RPM at 55mph and doesn't really make much power there), which wouldn't normally be a problem, but we got hills like "whoa." So I say at least go with a GSR trans to make things a bit smoother, can be rougher though if you do a lot of highway mileage. Some people go all out "race" with the B16/ITR trans's. That's total ownage unless u do a lot of highway
.
LS trans = ownage on highway
.
The only reason a B16 beats an LS is because of the trans, if you were to run an LS w/ a B16 trans it'll crush a B16, not by much because the B16's still got like 2,500 RPM higher redline of hard hitting VTEC over the LS, but the LS will win.
Yes, you did.
Right there.
You still spout off like you know something. Your H-T degree hasn't taught you ****. Being helpful is one thing. Not knowing what you're talking about is another. So essentially, your response is one big, crying crock of ****. I don't know how you haven't been banned yet.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow, *DING DING DING DING*
You've just won the "retard of the year" award!!
It was a figure of speech. What I said "plus" something else had NOTHING to do with the type of block. Like in my personal opinion, GSR = LS + RPM - why do I say this? Because there's like a 5lb/ft tq. difference and the only thing that makes the HP higher of the GSR is the higher redline
. Or B16 = D16 * 2VTEC = It really does, exact same "around town" power - and doesn't pull up hills for **** unless the RPM are high as a kite. It doesn't take off till VTEC engages and u have the throttle through the floorboard.So now, you quoted it, I'll say it once again:
B16B = B16A + Higher Comp.
I am NOT implying that the blocks are the same, I'm only implying that the only "major" difference between the two motors is the compression ratio. Maybe you see it my way, maybe you don't, but I did NOT, in the LEAST, imply, state, indicate, nor suggest that they were the same blocks.
Now if you have anymore bullshit to spew I suggest you should just PM me about it because this guy's trying to get actual information and doesn't give 2 ***** about your grudge against me. You've stated your opinion, I've stated mine, you've twisted what I said up like a ******* pretzel, now I'm saying "whatever."
PM me if you want to continue your vendetta as you changing whatever I say into bullshit statements isn't even winning you an argument, it's just cluttering a thread.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NightStalker »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LS B18b1 holds boost better IMO</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I agree, LS has a low comp ratio to start with and holds together quite nicely. I've seen quite a few people running close to, at, or slightly over 300whp on stock internals and a good tune. Very good engine to boost IN MY OPINION.
EDIT:
Well iono about the trans, it suffers from the same problem as the Z6/Y8 does in my area, that's at 55mph it's got like, no power (b/c it's only at 2400 RPM at 55mph and doesn't really make much power there), which wouldn't normally be a problem, but we got hills like "whoa." So I say at least go with a GSR trans to make things a bit smoother, can be rougher though if you do a lot of highway mileage. Some people go all out "race" with the B16/ITR trans's. That's total ownage unless u do a lot of highway
.LS trans = ownage on highway
.The only reason a B16 beats an LS is because of the trans, if you were to run an LS w/ a B16 trans it'll crush a B16, not by much because the B16's still got like 2,500 RPM higher redline of hard hitting VTEC over the LS, but the LS will win.
07-13-2007, 12:07 PM
#17
And you're getting e-angry why?
I could give a **** about your personal opinion. Any person who didn't know the truth would believe you, and they would be wrong as well. A figure of speech does not denote the truth.
Have you ever even seen a B-Series motor? **** it, let it die. You keep giving wrong information, I'll keep correcting you.
I could give a **** about your personal opinion. Any person who didn't know the truth would believe you, and they would be wrong as well. A figure of speech does not denote the truth.
Have you ever even seen a B-Series motor? **** it, let it die. You keep giving wrong information, I'll keep correcting you.
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nasteboyii
Tech / Misc
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11-06-2003 09:10 AM
CRXSIFUEL
Honda CRX / EF Civic (1988 - 1991)
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12-11-2002 02:11 PM
