jmeyer99

I am developing a protype for a Venturi Induction system (www.aspenesco.com). I plan to initially try the device without a throttle position sensor. I pulled my TPS off my car last night and the car seemed to be uneffected.

What does the TPS really do? Will the Venturi negate the need for the TPS?

type B16

hmm next gen itbs? if its patented, it must be serious. in for updates

Syndacate

Hrm, if you're using a venturi system then it will probably negate the need for TPS, yes.

sohc1200cc

sorry for the question..
what is the difference between and ITB and a venturi induction?

Syndacate

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sohc1200cc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sorry for the question..
what is the difference between and ITB and a venturi induction?</TD></TR></TABLE>

ITB's still use fuel injectors, venturi injection doesn't. It uses the vacuum from the air getting pulled in to pull fuel (or "venturi fuel") out of the venturi tubes.

Basis for how a carburator system works.

ZacCarter

iTrader: (1)

intresting

black_EM1

In for this.

The TPS does exactly what it says. It gives the ECU a readout of how far the throttle is down, full/part throttle, etc

jmeyer99

The basic concept is as follows:

Fuel injection is at the throat of the bung. A low pressure is induced only at the throat, promoting vaporization and mixing of the fuel and air. Pressure is recovered before the charge enters the engine. The expansion of the fuel will jettison the charge into the engine. The Venturi effect, resulting from the injected fuel, draws additional air into the entrance of the Venturi.Integration of the throttle and fuel injection assures the phenomenon works at all throttle positions.A turbocharged rendition is planned for phase 2. The Venturi tubes will be reconfigured to accommodate the turbo. The heat of compression will be lowered by the vaporization of the gasoline, rendering an intercooler unnecessary.

Details can be found at http://www.aspenesco.com

James Meyer, PE
jmeyer@aspenesco.com
Inventor, U.S. patent 6,868,830
Golden, CO

gldndrgn14

iTrader: (1)

How would you go about adjusting the fuel at certain loads? Also, could you run an efi computer with out the fuel maps to tune the ignition?

Sleepy_Red_hatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gldndrgn14 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How would you go about adjusting the fuel at certain loads? Also, could you run an efi computer with out the fuel maps to tune the ignition? </TD></TR></TABLE>

as the vaccum increases, so will the furl that is delivered

slwburn

Your gonna need the TPS.

Very interesting idea!

SkankyEJ7

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slwburn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your gonna need the TPS.

Very interesting idea!

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think your still gonna need something to let the ecu know what percent of the throttle your at, and then that can help determine engine load.

but either way i bet you couldnt get that sys smogged

highroller54

if your going to run a factory ecu for the ignition system then yes you still need a tps.

marshun

kinda depends on how you want to run the engine management

silver_flash99

interesting..

gldndrgn14

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sleepy_Red_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

as the vaccum increases, so will the furl that is delivered</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes genius, i got that part. hence my question, how do you adjust the fuel for different loads. as vacuum increases fuel would increase, making it linear and not very tunable. it would keep the same ratio across the band. what if i dont want the same ratios all through out my map. what if i wanted different a/f ratios for different loads for what type of driving i am doing? you dont always tune for the same a/f on every cell of the map. sorry, but i wouldnt.

marshun

this wont go through.

snowman0520

sounds kinda like what a carburetor does?

f20bej1

i think standalone systems would work where it would eliminate the need of tps but keeping the injectors to allow fuel to engine.

JDMFantasy2k

the tps does play a part in load calculation, but it plays a vital role as an accelerator pump. When you smack the throttle open the computer can sense it through the tps and compensate with a quick shot of fuel. If you don't have a tps you can still drive, and if you drive slow you might not even notice it's gone. But once you open the throttle quick it'll bog.

So yeah venturi induction carburetors, don't need tps'

Archidictus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gldndrgn14 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes genius, i got that part. hence my question, how do you adjust the fuel for different loads. as vacuum increases fuel would increase, making it linear and not very tunable. it would keep the same ratio across the band. what if i dont want the same ratios all through out my map. what if i wanted different a/f ratios for different loads for what type of driving i am doing? you dont always tune for the same a/f on every cell of the map. sorry, but i wouldnt. </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're using fuel injectors you can link MAP to duty cycle and ignition advance just like every other tuning device on the market. How the air moves past the injectors isn't the important part. As long as fuel injection is used, there's no reason why this system isn't every bit as tunable as your normal B-series turbo.

For the TPS, it shouldn't be difficult to calibrate the existing sensor to a cam-rod system to activate the venturis. As long as you can make a functional MAP you should have all the benefits of ITBs with more precise metering.

Syndacate

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Archidictus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you're using fuel injectors you can link MAP to duty cycle and ignition advance just like every other tuning device on the market. How the air moves past the injectors isn't the important part. As long as fuel injection is used, there's no reason why this system isn't every bit as tunable as your normal B-series turbo.

For the TPS, it shouldn't be difficult to calibrate the existing sensor to a cam-rod system to activate the venturis. As long as you can make a functional MAP you should have all the benefits of ITBs with more precise metering.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, but will he even need a TPS? THe TPS's basic function is to tell teh ECU how much the throttle is depressed so it knows how much fuel to pump, since fuel is being venturied there's no need for the ECU to know.

And just like any other carburated system it'll be completely adjustable a/f mix with the a/f screw where the air comes in...should be a hot system, I'm up for pix.

JDMFantasy2k

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah, but will he even need a TPS? THe TPS's basic function is to tell teh ECU how much the throttle is depressed so it knows how much fuel to pump, since fuel is being venturied there's no need for the ECU to know.

And just like any other carburated system it'll be completely adjustable a/f mix with the a/f screw where the air comes in...should be a hot system, I'm up for pix.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The TPS' function is not to tell the ecu how much fuel to pump! That's the map sensor's job (well, combined with the IAT and ECT sensors because those are very important as well).

I say just play with different jets like a regular carburetor.

gldndrgn14

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMFantasy2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The TPS' function is not to tell the ecu how much fuel to pump! That's the map sensor's job (well, combined with the IAT and ECT sensors because those are very important as well).

I say just play with different jets like a regular carburetor. </TD></TR></TABLE>

it depends what you use base you are using. if you are using alpha-n(tps load dependant) or speed density(map based load dependant).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah, but will he even need a TPS? THe TPS's basic function is to tell teh ECU how much the throttle is depressed so it knows how much fuel to pump, since fuel is being venturied there's no need for the ECU to know.

And just like any other carburated system it'll be completely adjustable a/f mix with the a/f screw where the air comes in...should be a hot system, I'm up for pix.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, i know i can adjust the fuel mixture for it, but my question is, can the fuel mixture be varied through out driving. like lets say for constant load and any driving under 4k rpm i want the fuel mixture at 14:1, and when i am over 70% throttle(ie drag racing, road racing, etc.) i want the fuel mixture around 13:1. is it possible. because how i understand it, which i didnt really look much into detail as i can only view the stuff on my phone since i dont have a computer right now, is it fully tunable and not linear based of the venturi.

Hater

It seems like a step backward to me...

Electronic Fuel Injection was invented to provide very precise measurements and diagnostics for the fuel delivery system, creating a more efficiently running engine...

Isn't this flushing years of technological advances down the drain?