jmjmotorsport

Well, for a while now I'd been toying with the idea of converting my 93' DX hatch, that was given to me for free, into an M2 class rally car. After reading this months SCC with that 91' the guy rallied, I decided to officially start my project today. Seeing as how the *****-box of a motor know as a d15b7 was still under hood, I decided it had to go. It was tired anyway.. I decided for a reasonable budget, to go with a USDM D16Z6. I figure it will do pretty good with decent top end and not too much gravel spitting torque so it might handle through the corners. I hear it's a pretty straightforward swap too. My 1st, I always just bought the cars with the motor I wanted (97 GS-R, 99' Si, 00 Prelude VTEC). Any comments on anyone on how it will run all motor with mild mods?.. I'm looking for reliability.. Anyway, hopefully I can get in a few rally-x events before this year is out.

ABK

I don't know how durable a d16 would be since it's SOHC, plus they like to **** up rod bearing alot too. I would best go with some sort of B.

Swaps are easy, don't require tons of mechanical skill.

JDMlyfestyle

if your on a budget you might wanna try a B16 for starters or a LS/vtec setup. make sure u have plenty of safety equipment tho. seen alot of bad accidents in rally events

ABK

do you really think that LS/Vtec is such a good option, I mean he won't be looking for power up there all the time anyways, plus ls/vtec isn't teribly durable either. You need something that makes some torque so maybe B18B will be the best bet just like that guy with EF.

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ABK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know how durable a d16 would be since it's SOHC, plus they like to **** up rod bearing alot too. I would best go with some sort of B.

Swaps are easy, don't require tons of mechanical skill.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry I must disagree.

I've never seen any problems with D series rod bearings in any serious numbers whatsoever. I'd hardly call them "problematic."

In terms of torque the B16A is a horrible idea. A good old D16A6 or D16Z6 will make more low end torque and whp than a B16A that needs to be revved well over 6500rpm just to make decent power and torque.

If you must go with a B, do what the EF guy in that SCC mag did and go with a basically bone stock B18B swap and make sure you have some sort of LSD.

LS/VTEC for rally would be pointless seing as how you'd not want to venture well into VTEC range because of wheelspin.

Discosteak

iTrader: (1)

i would have kept the b7 and boosted it like 4-5 pounds. you need to find a motor that can be easily replaced. same with a tranny in case you smack either of them on a rock or something.

plus b swaps arent as cheap as a d-series so if you screw up your d you can find another cheap and easy

clm

Will the rules allow a swap?

Good luck with the project and do a search in the RR/Autocross forum - there are some threads floating around in there about Honda rally cars.

ABK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I've never seen any problems with D series rod bearings in any serious numbers whatsoever. I'd hardly call them "problematic."
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I spun mine with a LX motor which doesn't even rev high. I know somebody who spun theirs on d16z6 too.

Also d series motors can take the abuse but no for long periods of time since the sohc valve train is not the best thing in the world.

I would at least have a dohc zc motor.

jmjmotorsport

Yeah, for the modified 2wd class where I'm at you can do a swap as long as it's from the same manufacturer. So I'm straight with that. Well, I did buy the D16 today and it's sitting in the garage. I'm cleaning it up, replacing all the belts/pulleys, gaskets, water pump, distrubutor.. everything. The valve train on it is in great shape, no black carbon buildup on any valves, everything looks real good on the inside. As for safety equip, that's why I went with the D swap. The money I'm saving is for my cage, helmet(s), race seats, 5pts, etc.. I'm not trying to get hurt. I've been driving gravel for a while now and I made my mistakes when I was younger and dumber.. Talon Tsi, in ditch, upside down, suspended by seat belts... yeah. But anyway, hopefully I can get everything done in the next few weeks and have it ready to go in the car this month.. I'm married w/ kids so I'm not exactly at a premium with free time. But I'll post pics as things progress.. and I guess maybe some "baseline" pics of what I'm starting with. Oh yeah, and about boosting the b7? I take pride in saying that I've slowly and methodically owned that thing.. it's hurt bad. Leaks oil like no tomorrow right now and it's not worth fixing IMO to boost a shitty motor. But that's me.

nwdave

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMlifestyle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if your on a budget you might wanna try a B16 for starters or a LS/vtec setup</TD></TR></TABLE>

To me, "LS/VTEC" and "on a budget" just don't go together.

Good luck with your project jmjmotorsport, that SCC article made me wanna go rallying too

clm

Good choice on the D16Z6; cheap and it should be effective. It also spare some money for thje safety as you mentioned, and from what I've gathered, the stock suspension is a pretty weak link when rallying Hondas.

jmjmotorsport

I've been thinking about that too. I'll probably pickup some 275 or 285 lb Eibach springs.. and it looked like that guy was running Koni adjustables.. I've also seen some civics with GAB struts rallying.. and well, I'll just starting taking stock in LCA's and stuff now.

Deemeetree

I say go with the D16Z6. Decent power to be had but not enough to spin the crap out of it on gravel. Keep us upated!

asmallsol

Tein DIRT

As for d16z6's not being durible, mine was a tank. I had 150,000 miles on it when I finally swaped it, and it still had perfect compression, didn't burn oil, reved it up to redline ALL the time, went to 20+ autocrosses in it, and never once I had a problem.

nwdave

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jmjmotorsport &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll just starting taking stock in LCA's</TD></TR></TABLE>

*cough*see sig*cough*

dyg2001

You need to get in contact with H-T member and EG rally car driver mattjohnston

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=753435

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ABK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I spun mine with a LX motor which doesn't even rev high. I know somebody who spun theirs on d16z6 too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm sorry but just because you and a friend spun rod bearings doesn't make the D series any less reliable in my opinion. Unless the both of you were the original owners of those engines you will never know why your engines failed. D series engines can be the most abused and neglected engines too, because a lot of cheap-*** people own Civics before we get our hands on them.

The old shitty 70hp D15 in my 1990 STD hatch lasted for 180K miles. During half of those miles I owned the car and drove the **** out of it. I bounced it off the rev limiter daily when I was younger because I wanted a faster engine, but to my surprise the thing would never blow up.

Then my sister got the car after I upgraded to a 92 Si hatch and she NEVER did any maintenance to the engine. It had some serious oil leaks, etc. and she drove the **** out of it too.

I ended up back with the 90 hatch a year or two ago and I drove the car until the distributor locked up. I assumed the engine blew, so I simply built me a nice D16A6 with 11:1CR by using 89 Integra pistons and the metal SOHC VTEC head gasket from the D16Y8 engines.

That engine is still running now with zero problems in a friend of mine's car. He fixd the oil leaks and threw on a T belt, waterpump, etc. and it's still going.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also d series motors can take the abuse but no for long periods of time since the sohc valve train is not the best thing in the world.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Read my story above.



D series engines are THE icon of durability IMO. I've been working in and around Hondas and Acuras now since 1995 and I've seen very few D series engine failures that were not caused by a lack of oil, broken T belt, overheaing the **** out of it and blowing the headgasket, etc.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would at least have a dohc zc motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

IMO the DOHC ZC is poop. I'd take a SOHC ZC or a D16A6 (that's exactly what I did) over the DOHC ZC. I'd especially take a SOHC VTEC engine over the ZC. The SOHC engines have many more cams available, the parts are much easier to get together because the DOHC takes all sorts of different parts from differen Hondas and Acuras. The SOHC parts can be had from the 88-91 CR-X/Civic Si if it's a non-VTEC SOHC ZC, and they can be had from the 92-95 Si/EX (92 EX 4-door since there was no 92 coupe ) if it's a SOHC VTEC ZC.

I say good choice on the D16, but I never saw what D16 you got. D16A6? Z6? Y8? A1? What'd you end up geting bro?

jmjmotorsport

Sorry, been off the forums for a day or so now.. I ended up with a Z6. I figured it was a good route to go in terms of reliability and a decent amount of power to be had. I also think the d series are not unreliable.. the stock d15b7 in the hatch now is hurt, but it's got 182k!! And a chunk of that was my sister who didn't do any maintenance to the car unless it physically made the car undrivable! I just picked up a new water pump, t belt, pulleys, accesory belts, plugs, wires, and intake for the Z6 today so I've got a little bit to do for a few days at least For ignition, what do you guys think? Get an OEM distrubutor setup, or maybe go with a MSD 6 or SCI with an external coil? I had one on my 99si and it seemed to cripsen up the throttle response and power delivery.. I dont' think it makes any real HP, just makes the ponies you got feel smoother.