JDM-sol 89

Here recently, my car threw a code 4 (Crankshaft positioning sensor). I tore the distributor apart to discover that the bearing had failed while driving causing extreme shaft movement, inwhich causig my CEL.

Now, after replacing the whole rotor assembly unit, my car won't even start. I literally only replaced the main rod, the one with all those gears attacthed and that bearing in the center, and reused everything else; just cleaned all the metal dust off. You would think it would start right back up.

I've tested my coil and its testing within factory specifications[ A(+) to B(-) was right at 0.7 ohms and A(+) to Secondary Winding Terminals was at 17,600 ohms] I checked continuity on the YEL/GRN wire from the igniter all the way up to the the main chassis plug. If you follow the Honda "Igniter Unit Input Test" in their manual; I've made it all the wat to step 5, getting battery voltage after every test, when it says to Check the YEL/GRN wire between the PGM-FI ECU and the igniter unit that is where I'm Kind of confused. Does that mean check continuity from the YEL/GRN terminal inside the dizzy all the way inside the cabin to where it plugs into the ecu?

If I were to get battery vlotage between the YEL/GRN terminal inside the dizzy and a body ground, would that mean the distributor is getting a signal from the ecu?

Former User

Any CEL codes?

For the primary coil resistance measurement, did you subtract the internal resistance of your meter from the reading?

The Yel/Grn wire from the ECU tells the distributor when to produce spark. If that wire has an open or short, there will be no spark.

Test the wire for continuity (open) and continuity to body ground (short).

-------

Also:

In your first post, you MUST provide all pertinent information about your car and engine. Failure to do so may result in thread closure.

JDM-sol 89

I appologize, the car is a 95 civic ex with a D15B7.

As far as I know, I am testing the coil properly. When I tested the coil I set the ohms setting to the lowest it could go and I got a reading of 7.2? I just figured you moved the decimal over a place.

No CEL codes since I have replaced the distributor. Though, when I turn the ignotion to ON the CEL illuminats for a few seconds and then shuts off, just as it should. I can also hear the fuel pump prime and the main relay click.

According the wiring diagram and on the car the YEL/GRN wire from dizzy changes to RED/GRN when it meets one of the main enine harness plugs. I will check for continuity within the RED/GRN wire from ECU to the engine harness plug. Also, what is the purpose of step 6 of the Ignitier Unit Imput Test if the tachometer works properly? It says to check the BLU wire in between the Igniter Unit and the tachometer.

Any other tests I can perform to determine what the problem may be? I want to conduct as many tests before I start throwing money and parts at it. Thanks Ron

Former User

Check for continuity between the Yel/Grn wire in the distributor and Red/Grn wire terminal in the ECU connector. Also test for continuity to body ground from the Yel/Grn wire in the distributor.

There's no need for you to check the Blu wire.
-----------------------

Have you or an auto parts store tested the igniter unit?

If you crank the engine for 25 seconds, are any codes thrown?

Did you properly reconnect all distributor wires?

Telecatster

Did you happen to get it 180 degrees out of rotation during your dizzy rebuild? that would prevent it from starting.

Former User

This^ can happen with an aftermarket distributor.

OP, have you checked for spark?

JDM-sol 89

I will check this after work and I will also follow your steps to test the coil again. When it says "body ground", where is that refering to? Where is a good place to touch the probe to?

There's no need for you to check the Blu wire.
-----------------------

I have not tested the igniter unit, nor have I taken it anywhere to be tested. I do not know how to test the igniter unit. What parts stores are capable of testing the igniter unit? Autozone, nape, etc.?

Maybe not 25 seconds, but I know I have cranked on it for at least 16-20 seconds at a time.

I believe so. The two main plugs on the outside of the distributor housing are one-way specific, and they have no resistance when plugging together. And everything inside the distributer is connected properly, to the furthest of my knowledge.

--------------------

I just don't understand how it runs right up into my driveway and after I use the same parts to get it back togther, it does this. I have 2 igniter units, 1 of which is the original I have been running and the other came out of my running z6 I'm rebuilding.

Former User

Have you checked for spark at all 4 spark plugs?

JDM-sol 89

It's the original distributor. All three legs of the distributor line up with their corresponding bolt hole.

I have not, it's the first thing I'm going to check after work.

Former User

This is key because you may be on the wrong track if all plugs have bright white spark.

JDM-sol 89

Well, good news. It turns out that, I am in fact, getting spark... Sorry, I should have tested this first. Though, spark seemed copper-ish in color. I am also getting fuel to the rail, so maybe, something controlling the injectors is faulty.

Former User

Spark should be bright white. Retest the coil and have the ICM tested.

JDM-sol 89

Will do. Where all can perform the test on the ICM?

---------------------------

You know, this problem has happened to me once before; here recently, actually.
One morning I went out to my car and it just wouldn't start, right out of the blue? I started to perform similar tests for spark and fuel with the same results. Then the following day I went out try starting it again and it fired up; ran rough, but I feathered the pedal up to about 2.5 3k and it smoothed off shortly after. Here is a link to the post I started about that problem. I'm almost starting to think something ignition related?

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-civic-del-sol-1992-2000-1/94-ex-wont-start-offically-stumped-3027271/

Former User

AutoZone tests ICMs/igniter units.

Or you can do it:

http://www.team-integra.net/forum/bl...eshooting.html

JDM-sol 89

Just tested my coil and my ICM.

--------------------

-I performed the test on my coil indoors, at a temperature of 76 degrees F.

1. Internal resistance of multimeter on lowest ohms setting (200 in my case) - 5.4 ohms

2. Primary winding resistance {A(+)-B(-)} - 6.0 ohms

3. Actual winding resistance (multimeter resistance subtracted by primary winding resistance) - 0.6 ohms

4. Secondary winding resistance {A(+) - secondary winding terminal} - 16,400 ohms

I then went on to test my ICM outside at a temperate of 84 degrees.

1. Voltage between BLK/YEL and body ground was at - 12.44 DCV

2. Voltage between WHT/BLU and body ground was at 12.46 DCV

I am going to get a 12v light probe here this afternoon so I can perform step 3, but considering I am getting spark to all four plugs I am going to just guess that the ICM is good. Though, I am certainly going to test the ICM with a light probe before a purchase any new part.

Former User

It's more complicated but it's always best to start simple. For example, there are instances where a bad coil tests fine in the resistance tests. Likewise, the igniter unit test at the link I posted can also miss some problems.

Assuming that your other distributor components, like the cap, rotor, and plug wires are fine and the dust cover is not missing, then have AutoZone also test the igniter unit and swap in known good coil if you have one available to you.

JDM-sol 89

I am getting fuel to the rail, battery voltage at each injector clip, and some sort of spark; could I rule out my ignition switch being bad?

JDM-sol 89

I attempted the last step of this test last night ^ with the light probe tester, but I think I purchased the wrong light probe. The unit I bought you actually put 2 AAA batteries in the handle; I'm sure this was to just test continuity. So, almost immediatly after I had someone crank the engine, with the aligator clip attach the (+) battery terminal and probe end to the (-) on the coil, the light in the test probe faded out.. I'm sure indicating something burnt up

Luckily, it was only $5 from Advance

Anyways, what probe do I need to purchase to perform this test properly? And a buddy of mine said to test the injector pulse? Is that irrelivant to my situation?

JDM-sol 89

After a week of tinkering with my civic I am still at a loss. I decided to recheck my codes and I was surprised to find code 4 (crank position sensor) and 16 (fuel injectors). I imagine code 16 is from a bad main relay but I'm not sure what could be the cause for code 4?

EKBASICS

1. try a new OEM Dist & rotor
2. check your ign wires
3. check your timing, may have been thrown off by distr malfunction

i believe the problem lies somewhere in those areas

JDM-sol 89

I am hoping so.

I tested my ignition switch this morning using Honda's Ignition switch test on page 23-72 of their shop manual and everything tested okay. I will double check my timing and I'm planning on purchasing an oem dist. housing.

JDM-sol 89

After a week of heafache my buddy and I fanally got the civic running again!

--------------------------

We did end up concluding that the reason why it was not starting was because the injectors were not squirting fuel when cranking. First thought, of course, was bad main relay. So, we swapped it out for a known good one, but had no avail. All injectors tested within factory spec (10-13ohms) and each injector plug was getting battery voltage while the ignition was on. We then checked continuity from each injecter clip all the way up to the ecu and everything checked out okay. After plugging the ecu back in we tried cranking it again and, just as before, it started, but very hesitantly. It sounded like it was missing and sputtering pretty bad; we held the throttle around 2k and it soon smoothed off and idled just as it did before. We then let it sit at idle for about 10 minutes; still had no codes and still sounded pretty good. After our 10 minute idle sesson I turned it off, waited a minute or two, and started it back up without any problems.

Now, I'm glad its back running again, but it still concerns me that we didn't really find a solution as to why the injectors weren't firing while cranking. My buddy said that my FPR could be going bad; not letting the pressurized fuel pass through the fuel rail, causing the injectors to kind of seize up due to too much fuel pressure? I was thinking that there was possibly some corrosion inside the "A" ecu plug, fouling out signal from the ecu to the injectors.

-------------------------

I do really appreciate all of the help and I learned a lot of useful information. Any thoughts, ideas, ect would be much appreciated as some other people may be having similar problems.