noob shifting questions
05-04-2007, 12:53 AM
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noob shifting questions
hi. i'm a new stick shift driver and i had a few questions about how to drive stick correctly. i have a 98 civic ex and i've been driving stick for about a 2-3 months and i've noticed that my gas drops pretty quick. i'm pretty sure 20 dollars 3/4 tank is supposed to get me more than 115 miles. but for some reason, the gas gets killed really quick.
another question i have is when im in neutral slowing down at 20 mph, the traffic begins to pick up, so i shift to second gear and the car jerks a little bit, with that feeling like as if something was being forced in. i been experimenting with this and noticed that even if i shift into third, the car makes the sound like i don't have enough gas and accelerates really slowly.
another question is...when exactly am i supposed to shift into 1st gear? because sometimes when the car is rolling at like 5-10 mph, i try to shift back into 1st gear and the car jerks and revs real hard. but when i shift to 2nd, it makes that sound like it doesn't have enough gas.
last question: why is it when i shift into 1st gear, it sometimes won't go in, so i have to let go of clutch and step on it again in order to shift into first. this isn't a problem, but when i have to do this when traffic goes, it gets kind of irritating, especially when people behind are honking.
btw, i tried using the recommended shift points in the manual, but these all didn't work.
the shift points were something like
1st to 2nd: 15
2nd to 3rd: 27
3rd to 4th: 39
4th to 5th: forgot if there is one.
thanks
another question i have is when im in neutral slowing down at 20 mph, the traffic begins to pick up, so i shift to second gear and the car jerks a little bit, with that feeling like as if something was being forced in. i been experimenting with this and noticed that even if i shift into third, the car makes the sound like i don't have enough gas and accelerates really slowly.
another question is...when exactly am i supposed to shift into 1st gear? because sometimes when the car is rolling at like 5-10 mph, i try to shift back into 1st gear and the car jerks and revs real hard. but when i shift to 2nd, it makes that sound like it doesn't have enough gas.
last question: why is it when i shift into 1st gear, it sometimes won't go in, so i have to let go of clutch and step on it again in order to shift into first. this isn't a problem, but when i have to do this when traffic goes, it gets kind of irritating, especially when people behind are honking.
btw, i tried using the recommended shift points in the manual, but these all didn't work.
the shift points were something like
1st to 2nd: 15
2nd to 3rd: 27
3rd to 4th: 39
4th to 5th: forgot if there is one.
thanks
05-04-2007, 01:15 AM
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Re: noob shifting questions (sz9182)
1. how many miles do u have on the motor? you may need a new fuel filter of fuel injectors. they arent known to stick often..but who knows it can happen. a dirty air filter can also cause that problem. and tire pressure as well. alot of small factors can cause bad fuel comsumption
2. when u downshift your your engine is acting as a brake. to aviod harsh jerking, let go of the clutch slower. or you can match revs.
3. and usually i never go into 1st gear unless im at a complete stop or going slow enough to where my speedometer doesnt pick it up. and when it feels like u dont have enough gas, ease off the pedal a little because your rpm's arent high enough to make your car accelerate. thats also alot of stress on your clutch. so if anything come to an almost complete stop and put it in 1st.
4. and about those shift points...everyone has their own shift points. if you have a stock motor, usually shifting between 3000-4000 rpm will give you a good amount of power to get going with good gas milage.
2. when u downshift your your engine is acting as a brake. to aviod harsh jerking, let go of the clutch slower. or you can match revs.
3. and usually i never go into 1st gear unless im at a complete stop or going slow enough to where my speedometer doesnt pick it up. and when it feels like u dont have enough gas, ease off the pedal a little because your rpm's arent high enough to make your car accelerate. thats also alot of stress on your clutch. so if anything come to an almost complete stop and put it in 1st.
4. and about those shift points...everyone has their own shift points. if you have a stock motor, usually shifting between 3000-4000 rpm will give you a good amount of power to get going with good gas milage.
05-04-2007, 01:42 AM
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You should be getting more than 115 miles on 3/4 of a tank. Should be closer to 300. That's a car problem, I doubt that has anything to do with you driving stick unless you hold it in the red line the duration of ur driving. I'd start with changing the fuel filter in the engine bay (not the one at the pump) and running some fuel injector cleaner through there. If that didn't give you any progress measure your fuel pressure at the filter (remember to disconnect the vacuum line going to the intake manifold on your FPR for an accurate reading), then see where you are from there.
Don't shift into 3rd in that scenario, it's too high a gear for the speed you're going - so you "lug" the engine (the engine operates efficiently, especially 1.6L, AFTER 1.8K RPM or so, I usually don't like putting it below 1.8 unless it's idling or whatever. Put it into 2nd, then let the clutch out slower. Letting the clutch out slower (or "feathering" it) will ease the "jerking," but do note, when you feather a clutch, if you do it too long (which is very easy to do if you haven't been driving standard cars long) you'll burn the clutch and if you keep going that you'll kill the clutch. So feather it so won't jerk, but don't hold it half way down long enough that it's groaning when engaging (you can PM me for more info about this).
You'll get better at shifting into 1st gear as you get better at driving a car. General rule? Don't shift into 1st unless you come to a complete stop, it's hard to rev match to first, I do it in parking lots, but I didn't always, what I did before that (and what the majority of people do) is feather the clutch a bit and give it some gas, basically just hold the clutch, give it some gas, let out the clutch a little so it gives it a little "boost," then clutch again, if you hold the clutch out, again, you'll burn the clutch, so just bring it out, give some gas, and push it back in. This can be used to propel you at slow speeds like that (again, PM me for further info about it).
Ignore the people behind you, if you panic, **** can happen, so don't worry about them. If you're trying to shift into 1st or reverse and it won't go in, put the stick into 4th first, then it should slip right into 1st, don't take the clutch out inbetween, if it won't go in, just keep the clutch held, shift to 4th, then to 1st, and it should go in smoothly. A lot of people say it's wear in the clutch spring, but you should put it in 1st at the light and hold the clutch down so you're ready to go.
From the traffic behind you and such it sounds like you're in a relatively industrialized area, probably lots of 45mph zones and double laned roads and such. You'd probably want to accelerate a little quicker. I'm all for gas mileage 'n all, but 1.5's a bit too early for a 1.6L engine, i shift around 3k (now please note, just b/c you go up high, doesn't necessarily mean you have to have the pedal pinned to the floor, you can still get to 3k RPM at 25% throttle). Believe it or not, it's BETTER for your fuel economy if you bring it to 4k RPM in 2nd before shifting it into 3rd with 15% throttle or so than it is to shift at 2k and have to give it 50% throttle (or usually more). Don't be afraid to put it to 3k or so on a typical shift, as long as the pedal isn't pinned it won't hurt your MPG. So what's better, pedal deeper in a higher gear, or less throttle in a lower gear? I've heard it argued both ways, the truth is the median inbetween, not too high of a gear where you have to hold the gas to the floor to get it to move, but not low enough to a gear where you're giving it 20% throttle up to 7k RPM.
I usually do 30-40% throttle to about 3k RPM shift in 1st, maybe about 20% to 4k in 2nd, etc. etc. It changes with me, depends on where I am, obviously if I'm in a huge traffic area, I'm not gonna be the old granny that people are honking at, get on it and move a bit... For campus driving it's usually lower, like shifting at 1200 RPM or so. Differentiate it for the circumstances, you'll never be able to "set shift points."
PM me if you want further help, I've taught quite a few people, a lot in real life, and oddly enough, quite a few online as well.
Don't shift into 3rd in that scenario, it's too high a gear for the speed you're going - so you "lug" the engine (the engine operates efficiently, especially 1.6L, AFTER 1.8K RPM or so, I usually don't like putting it below 1.8 unless it's idling or whatever. Put it into 2nd, then let the clutch out slower. Letting the clutch out slower (or "feathering" it) will ease the "jerking," but do note, when you feather a clutch, if you do it too long (which is very easy to do if you haven't been driving standard cars long) you'll burn the clutch and if you keep going that you'll kill the clutch. So feather it so won't jerk, but don't hold it half way down long enough that it's groaning when engaging (you can PM me for more info about this).
You'll get better at shifting into 1st gear as you get better at driving a car. General rule? Don't shift into 1st unless you come to a complete stop, it's hard to rev match to first, I do it in parking lots, but I didn't always, what I did before that (and what the majority of people do) is feather the clutch a bit and give it some gas, basically just hold the clutch, give it some gas, let out the clutch a little so it gives it a little "boost," then clutch again, if you hold the clutch out, again, you'll burn the clutch, so just bring it out, give some gas, and push it back in. This can be used to propel you at slow speeds like that (again, PM me for further info about it).
Ignore the people behind you, if you panic, **** can happen, so don't worry about them. If you're trying to shift into 1st or reverse and it won't go in, put the stick into 4th first, then it should slip right into 1st, don't take the clutch out inbetween, if it won't go in, just keep the clutch held, shift to 4th, then to 1st, and it should go in smoothly. A lot of people say it's wear in the clutch spring, but you should put it in 1st at the light and hold the clutch down so you're ready to go.
From the traffic behind you and such it sounds like you're in a relatively industrialized area, probably lots of 45mph zones and double laned roads and such. You'd probably want to accelerate a little quicker. I'm all for gas mileage 'n all, but 1.5's a bit too early for a 1.6L engine, i shift around 3k (now please note, just b/c you go up high, doesn't necessarily mean you have to have the pedal pinned to the floor, you can still get to 3k RPM at 25% throttle). Believe it or not, it's BETTER for your fuel economy if you bring it to 4k RPM in 2nd before shifting it into 3rd with 15% throttle or so than it is to shift at 2k and have to give it 50% throttle (or usually more). Don't be afraid to put it to 3k or so on a typical shift, as long as the pedal isn't pinned it won't hurt your MPG. So what's better, pedal deeper in a higher gear, or less throttle in a lower gear? I've heard it argued both ways, the truth is the median inbetween, not too high of a gear where you have to hold the gas to the floor to get it to move, but not low enough to a gear where you're giving it 20% throttle up to 7k RPM.
I usually do 30-40% throttle to about 3k RPM shift in 1st, maybe about 20% to 4k in 2nd, etc. etc. It changes with me, depends on where I am, obviously if I'm in a huge traffic area, I'm not gonna be the old granny that people are honking at, get on it and move a bit... For campus driving it's usually lower, like shifting at 1200 RPM or so. Differentiate it for the circumstances, you'll never be able to "set shift points."
PM me if you want further help, I've taught quite a few people, a lot in real life, and oddly enough, quite a few online as well.
05-04-2007, 12:37 PM
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how much would all these things suggested cost? an average estimate?
also, i'm new to cars, so i have completely no idea where anything is. can you guys post up pictures or links for instructions on how to do this?
thanks
i also have about 92k on the engine now.
also, i'm new to cars, so i have completely no idea where anything is. can you guys post up pictures or links for instructions on how to do this?
thanks
i also have about 92k on the engine now.
05-04-2007, 01:35 PM
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Re: (sz9182)
I taught my cousin how to drive stick in about 2days. Took him 2 months to not stall out. Still he stalls and jerks every now and then but has gotten a lot better each month.
My rule, anything above 10mph = 2nd gear. ifs its under i put it into neutral. to stop the jerk, i rev it up around 1-2k and feather the clutch out n let it grab and its good to go (1st gear)
You can do a tune up yourself, but you will need tools. I recommend you go to the nearest library and check out a book on DIY Auto maintenance. We could explain to you how to do it, but its 100x better if you can read about it and look at other stuff related to the car. Popular Mechanics guide is also one of the best with illustrated guides and really detailed instructions // advice etc,.
My rule, anything above 10mph = 2nd gear. ifs its under i put it into neutral. to stop the jerk, i rev it up around 1-2k and feather the clutch out n let it grab and its good to go (1st gear)
You can do a tune up yourself, but you will need tools. I recommend you go to the nearest library and check out a book on DIY Auto maintenance. We could explain to you how to do it, but its 100x better if you can read about it and look at other stuff related to the car. Popular Mechanics guide is also one of the best with illustrated guides and really detailed instructions // advice etc,.
05-04-2007, 05:58 PM
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Re: (Rainy City)
92k on the engine means nothing, i have close 115,000 and i still get 400 mpg.
like the others said, its not a driving problem..it is a car problem. start off with the basics, get injector cleaner. make sure u put it in REALLY slow. injector cleaner is like 5 bucks or something
like the others said, its not a driving problem..it is a car problem. start off with the basics, get injector cleaner. make sure u put it in REALLY slow. injector cleaner is like 5 bucks or something
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05-04-2007, 06:05 PM
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Re: (slkleltlclh)
Sometimes I start form 0 in second gear. With proper clutch technique you have a much cleaner takeoff.
If I'm moving I never change into 1st gear. Always second.
If I'm moving I never change into 1st gear. Always second.
05-04-2007, 08:01 PM
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Re: (slkleltlclh)
[QUOTE=slkleltlclh]92k on the engine means nothing, i have close 115,000 and i still get 400 mpg.[/QUOTE]
HOLY ****!!! I wish that I could get 400 miles per gallon
Anyways, I shift anywhere between 2200-3000 and I get over 400miles to a tank (between 35 mpg and 40 mpg). If you have no idea what you are doing, I would suggest to take it to a shop, but if you want to learn, no time like the present so go and buy yourself a honda shop manual, not a haynes or chiltons, I mean a REAL Honda shop manual. Also if you have a mechanically inclined friend, they might be willing to help you too.
good luck!
HOLY ****!!! I wish that I could get 400 miles per gallon
Anyways, I shift anywhere between 2200-3000 and I get over 400miles to a tank (between 35 mpg and 40 mpg). If you have no idea what you are doing, I would suggest to take it to a shop, but if you want to learn, no time like the present so go and buy yourself a honda shop manual, not a haynes or chiltons, I mean a REAL Honda shop manual. Also if you have a mechanically inclined friend, they might be willing to help you too.good luck!
05-05-2007, 12:19 AM
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so as for the basics, i should just put fuel injector into the engine. but where exactly to i pour it in? do i pour it in the same place i'd pour motor oil in?
also, if that's where i'm supposed to pour it, would i have to drain the motor oil before i do it?
since i'm guessing that the fuel injector cleaner isn't going to do too much, if its true that its more likely that i need a tuneup, is it risky to try to do it myself?
thanks
also, if that's where i'm supposed to pour it, would i have to drain the motor oil before i do it?
since i'm guessing that the fuel injector cleaner isn't going to do too much, if its true that its more likely that i need a tuneup, is it risky to try to do it myself?
thanks
05-05-2007, 05:28 AM
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Re: (sz9182)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sz9182 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so as for the basics, i should just put fuel injector into the engine. but where exactly to i pour it in? do i pour it in the same place i'd pour motor oil in?
also, if that's where i'm supposed to pour it, would i have to drain the motor oil before i do it?
since i'm guessing that the fuel injector cleaner isn't going to do too much, if its true that its more likely that i need a tuneup, is it risky to try to do it myself?
thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>
no offense but I would just take it somewhere if you are asking these questions. First off, injector leaner goes in your gas(you pour it in your gas tank before you fill up).
also, if that's where i'm supposed to pour it, would i have to drain the motor oil before i do it?
since i'm guessing that the fuel injector cleaner isn't going to do too much, if its true that its more likely that i need a tuneup, is it risky to try to do it myself?
thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>
no offense but I would just take it somewhere if you are asking these questions. First off, injector leaner goes in your gas(you pour it in your gas tank before you fill up).
05-05-2007, 06:30 AM
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Re: (uneek360)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by uneek360 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WTF i only get 200 miles to a full tank 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
im getting the same thing with my supercharged b16.
anyways,
if anytime the car is rolling, i always stick it into 2nd gear. if you stick it in 1st gear while the car is rolling, its going to be harder for it to go in and you're going to have a jerk to it.
also it might sound like you're not evenly distributing the clutch and the gas. maybe that is why you are feeling that jerk. what i was taught was "see saw." if the clutch comes out, the gas should go in at the same time and vice versa.
and dont follow the example of the shifting point. if you want to save gas, shift around ~3k. (and yes~3k there is not a lot of power but if you want to save gas, that is the only way of shifting) better yet, maybe even lower.
</TD></TR></TABLE>im getting the same thing with my supercharged b16.
anyways,
if anytime the car is rolling, i always stick it into 2nd gear. if you stick it in 1st gear while the car is rolling, its going to be harder for it to go in and you're going to have a jerk to it.
also it might sound like you're not evenly distributing the clutch and the gas. maybe that is why you are feeling that jerk. what i was taught was "see saw." if the clutch comes out, the gas should go in at the same time and vice versa.
and dont follow the example of the shifting point. if you want to save gas, shift around ~3k. (and yes~3k there is not a lot of power but if you want to save gas, that is the only way of shifting) better yet, maybe even lower.
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