Market Research
07-20-2003, 11:26 PM
#76
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Re: Market Research (SuperStreetRX7)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SuperStreetRX7 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Put a box over a hot rock and what do you have? A box full of hot air.
Put a wrapped rock inside a boc and what do you have? A box full of warm air.
The first example is your shield, the second is header wrap.</TD></TR></TABLE>
if you still can't understand how the heat shield work, i dont know what i can tell you man. the heat shield box the header and trap all the heat inside the header. Inconel isolate heat better than fiber type wrap, PERIOD. if you dont like the price, its ok, no hard feeling, but you can't just twist the fact.
Put a wrapped rock inside a boc and what do you have? A box full of warm air.
The first example is your shield, the second is header wrap.</TD></TR></TABLE>
if you still can't understand how the heat shield work, i dont know what i can tell you man. the heat shield box the header and trap all the heat inside the header. Inconel isolate heat better than fiber type wrap, PERIOD. if you dont like the price, its ok, no hard feeling, but you can't just twist the fact.
07-21-2003, 07:20 AM
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Re: Market Research (spoon_ek9)
You are trying to do market research. Fine but when you get the response of the "Average Guy" then it seems that you are pissed saying we "JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!"
Perhaps we do and it still just don't tickle our fancy cause WE JUST DON'T NEED IT ON A DAILY DRIVER.
If it's 200 for cover one side it may be 300 to cover both sides of the header?
You have to appeal to the peoples sense of want. 200 Bux, What will it do for ME? People buy AEM CAI Around 189 and some change. AEM makes claims to HP as high as 15 I have seen in some places. Bottom line is People here want to see NUMBERS. People buy AEM CAI Not cause they all they talk about how the ambient Temperature under the hood etc etc and for ever 11 degree Difference the is a 1% HP increase... NO AEM Says *** Hp Increase. AEM knows that Average guy doesn't care HOW it works or WHY it works JUST THAT IT WORKS PERIOD. First question is HOW MANY HP INCREASE. Most guys aren't going to be happy with the purchase if they spend 200 on the things and they can't feel something in thier BUTT dyno.Word will be that the thing SUCKS. You think I am busting your Chops but I am trying to help you. Just cause we question your product don't dismiss us as a bunch of idiots that JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND.
You can't just say that your product is Better and case closed. HOW MUCH BETTER than Heat Wrap is it? How much better than the Spoon heat tape is it? What are the benifits over these products? Is it so much better to cover the added price?
OT: but kinda the same situation. I took my GF to Bananna Republic to get a Jacket. There was this very nice black 3/4 length Jacket and she loved it. Looked at the price tag and the thing was 500 bux and it wasn't even leather. The Sals person came over and told us how good the jacket was and that it was made of the SAME MATERIAL AS THE SPACE SHUTTLE SUITS THEY USE FOR THE SPACE WALKS.
Okay my question is... How is that good for her? Is she planning to go into space sometimes soon? NO she just wanted a Jacket that would keep her warm. Well, she bought the Jacket just as some people might buy your product for that price. She bought it cause she liked the way it looked. She couldn't care less that it was a Space suit.
One more: Ever heard of the Space Pen? It a little pen with a presurized cartridge that can write on just about any surface. Under water, 0 Gravity, Upside down, Extreme Heat and Cold, writes over grease etc etc... Okay sounds nice. Product is great and the pen looks cool too. How much is this thing? Well now the price has come down quiet a bit but when they first came out these things were 30 bux. Some people bought them. But MOST didn't.
Just like with the Space PEN if you want to MARKET it to the GP then you must drop the price. SUre NASA probably paid 300 Bux a pen so 30 bux is a DEAL for this pen but NO ONE NEEDED IT engough to spend 30 bux. Especially when a 20 pack of bic pens costs 3 bux
Perhaps we do and it still just don't tickle our fancy cause WE JUST DON'T NEED IT ON A DAILY DRIVER.
If it's 200 for cover one side it may be 300 to cover both sides of the header?
You have to appeal to the peoples sense of want. 200 Bux, What will it do for ME? People buy AEM CAI Around 189 and some change. AEM makes claims to HP as high as 15 I have seen in some places. Bottom line is People here want to see NUMBERS. People buy AEM CAI Not cause they all they talk about how the ambient Temperature under the hood etc etc and for ever 11 degree Difference the is a 1% HP increase... NO AEM Says *** Hp Increase. AEM knows that Average guy doesn't care HOW it works or WHY it works JUST THAT IT WORKS PERIOD. First question is HOW MANY HP INCREASE. Most guys aren't going to be happy with the purchase if they spend 200 on the things and they can't feel something in thier BUTT dyno.Word will be that the thing SUCKS. You think I am busting your Chops but I am trying to help you. Just cause we question your product don't dismiss us as a bunch of idiots that JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND.
You can't just say that your product is Better and case closed. HOW MUCH BETTER than Heat Wrap is it? How much better than the Spoon heat tape is it? What are the benifits over these products? Is it so much better to cover the added price?
OT: but kinda the same situation. I took my GF to Bananna Republic to get a Jacket. There was this very nice black 3/4 length Jacket and she loved it. Looked at the price tag and the thing was 500 bux and it wasn't even leather. The Sals person came over and told us how good the jacket was and that it was made of the SAME MATERIAL AS THE SPACE SHUTTLE SUITS THEY USE FOR THE SPACE WALKS.
Okay my question is... How is that good for her? Is she planning to go into space sometimes soon? NO she just wanted a Jacket that would keep her warm. Well, she bought the Jacket just as some people might buy your product for that price. She bought it cause she liked the way it looked. She couldn't care less that it was a Space suit.
One more: Ever heard of the Space Pen? It a little pen with a presurized cartridge that can write on just about any surface. Under water, 0 Gravity, Upside down, Extreme Heat and Cold, writes over grease etc etc... Okay sounds nice. Product is great and the pen looks cool too. How much is this thing? Well now the price has come down quiet a bit but when they first came out these things were 30 bux. Some people bought them. But MOST didn't.
Just like with the Space PEN if you want to MARKET it to the GP then you must drop the price. SUre NASA probably paid 300 Bux a pen so 30 bux is a DEAL for this pen but NO ONE NEEDED IT engough to spend 30 bux. Especially when a 20 pack of bic pens costs 3 bux
07-21-2003, 08:37 AM
#78
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Re: (spoon_ek9)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoon_ek9 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTW, the reason i post this in this forum is because i always go to this forum first. try to get normal peeps response.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Normal people don't want a product designed to give professional road racers an infintessimal edge over their opponents, especially for $200. We're not trying to make you look bad, we're not trying to slam your product, we're not trying to tell you that your product doesn't work. We're simply saying this: we can buy header wrap for $40 and it doesn't make any noticable difference in our engine's performance or temperature readings. What kind of numbers can you produce for us to merit the spending of 5x that amount of money on a producat that isn't even meant for people of our normal applications?
You have to show us what it does for us or we don't want it. And don't assume it's because we don't know the laws of thermodynamics or are blind to the fact that a cooler engine is a better engine, etc.
Show us the gain and we'll show you the green.
BTW, the reason i post this in this forum is because i always go to this forum first. try to get normal peeps response.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Normal people don't want a product designed to give professional road racers an infintessimal edge over their opponents, especially for $200. We're not trying to make you look bad, we're not trying to slam your product, we're not trying to tell you that your product doesn't work. We're simply saying this: we can buy header wrap for $40 and it doesn't make any noticable difference in our engine's performance or temperature readings. What kind of numbers can you produce for us to merit the spending of 5x that amount of money on a producat that isn't even meant for people of our normal applications?
You have to show us what it does for us or we don't want it. And don't assume it's because we don't know the laws of thermodynamics or are blind to the fact that a cooler engine is a better engine, etc.
Show us the gain and we'll show you the green.
07-21-2003, 09:43 AM
#79
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Re: Market Research (Spoond TEG)
look, i am doing a market research. if you guys think its overprice/overkill for daily driving, its ok. like i said(i lost count), if you guys think its not working for you, we will keep this product as a custom item. however, you guys twisted the use of this product and compare apple with orange. first, compare the heat shield with spoon heat tape(in the case of oil pan), which i think the result is not even close. i understand you are trying to tell me that if you dont need that kind of heat isolatoin, you will choose a cheaper alt. thats fine with me, but you make it sound likes the other alt will do the same if not better(i can tell you the difference will close to 30F in oil temp, if your car is light tuned). just like you are complaining why a BMW costs so much while it does the same thing as a civic - transportation.
also, from the beginning, did i SAY it will increase much hp? what you guys dont understand is your butt dyno will feel increase of in hp but will your butt dyno feel hp decrease when temp climbing up/building up? this product works just like a cooling product. will a large radiator give you hp gain? no, they didnt have NUMBER. so what will it do? it will cool down your car nicely so that you can enjoy your car longer w/ power(the more power you make, the more heat it will create, thats for sure, of course, you won't put this shield in any SOHC motor). same principal, this shield will promote a cooler engine bay. to me, if the power will not decrease in full load/hot condition, that is a gain to me.
right, i don't have NUMBER because i am just doing a market research before spending on any R&D. unlike AEM, we dont like to BS you guys with number. we put many of those in turbocharge cars and the result is very good, some owners even said "is my temp guage broken, how come its so low". and some with heat wrap/heat coat on their down pipe and header, they will be surprised by how much more cooler in their engine bay than before. if we got every number in our hand, then its not a research, it will be selling/pushing the product.
Modified by spoon_ek9 at 6:54 PM 7/21/2003
also, from the beginning, did i SAY it will increase much hp? what you guys dont understand is your butt dyno will feel increase of in hp but will your butt dyno feel hp decrease when temp climbing up/building up? this product works just like a cooling product. will a large radiator give you hp gain? no, they didnt have NUMBER. so what will it do? it will cool down your car nicely so that you can enjoy your car longer w/ power(the more power you make, the more heat it will create, thats for sure, of course, you won't put this shield in any SOHC motor). same principal, this shield will promote a cooler engine bay. to me, if the power will not decrease in full load/hot condition, that is a gain to me.
right, i don't have NUMBER because i am just doing a market research before spending on any R&D. unlike AEM, we dont like to BS you guys with number. we put many of those in turbocharge cars and the result is very good, some owners even said "is my temp guage broken, how come its so low". and some with heat wrap/heat coat on their down pipe and header, they will be surprised by how much more cooler in their engine bay than before. if we got every number in our hand, then its not a research, it will be selling/pushing the product.
Modified by spoon_ek9 at 6:54 PM 7/21/2003
07-21-2003, 11:58 AM
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Re: Market Research (spoon_ek9)
I don't care about what the cops think. That pretty much depends on which one decides to pull you over. But I do like the idea of keeping the heat where it belongs. Considering how much thermal wrap and sheet metal from home depot are, what your selling could be made half as pretty for half the price and still be pretty efficient. So, If you could get the price down to about a $100 then there would be no argument.
07-21-2003, 01:37 PM
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Re: Market Research (greebler)
I am interested, would you be wiling to sell it by the sheet? Sounds like I could definitely benefit from it, my underhood temps get so hot that I can't even touch my intercooler piping anywhere underneath the hood on a hot day, and I have a large intercooler and only running 1 bar of boost! My roommate might also be interested for his built rx-7. Feel free to PM me if you need to. Thanks.
-Reid, Option R (509)430-5756
-Reid, Option R (509)430-5756
07-22-2003, 06:44 AM
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Re: Market Research (spoon_ek9)
No offense but I really think you need to rethink the meaning of MARKETING. I am an engineer and I am working on getting a couple patents on inventions. I know a thing or two about Marketing. For one thing you can't just say, "Here is a great product and people in the F1 race cars use this I am going to sell it to you for 200 bux. So what do you think?" and then when you get FB on it you get all offended. You got an answer 200 is too much now you try to justify that cost without any proof that it is indeed 200 dollars worth of performance enhancment. It just isn't going to fly. Normally the R&D protion is ALREADY FINISHED before the marketing.
Can't just say, "I have a great product I know it will be good for you. I just can't tell you HOW much better it will be for you. I just know that it will cost 5 to 10 more than other current products that are meant for the same purpose. I can't tell you how much it will out perform the competition just that it's better." That's no way to Market your product. Marketing IS selling your item.
Apples and oranges you say. What are you doing? Civic and Lemans Cars? You are missing the point of the other products. NO ONE HERE has said that your product is not as you claim. The POINT for the 100000000000th time is that your price is TOO HIGH for the benifits over the average product. It's 15 degrees f in my 300 dollar freezer. I have some Chicken and Steak in there and a bucket of ICE. Freezing point is 32 degrees right? Okay so a guy comes to my Door and says he is marketing a new product. He has this Cryogenic Freezer that is capable of freezing to -100000 K. Says your food will be cooler and and this freezer is better than my current freezer. Says that it is normally 100k dollars but he will sell it to me and the GP for 500 bux. WOW now that's a good deal??? NO cause Why do I need such a Freezer? It's JUST CHICKEN!!!
I never said you said that your product will Free up HP. Furthermore your idea of heat out of site out of mind is flawed in itself.
Take a poll How many people have a cooling problem? How many people are running after market radiators? I'd go out on a limb and say that MOST are running Stock radiators. How about the Old argument of too much of any good thing can be BAD?
I have seen cracked Manifolds due to the use of Heat wrap on the Manifolds.
I'm done with this discussion I am exhausted. Bottom line is that GP thinks it is over priced due in part to the need for it. GP doesn't see the NEED to spend 5 to 10 times what we spend on other products.
If you want to make a better argument we asked for some Numbers. HP, Temp, Product comparisons. You claim that it is Better than Spoon Tape or Heat wrap and this may be true but HOW MUCH BETTER is the question. You have to convience the GP to spend the extra 160-180 bux for your product. Again I am trying to help you not bust on you. Don't get all offended and lash out at us.
When AEM marketed thier CAI they came with numbers and for the Skeptics they came with the facts and explained HOW it worked.
Perhaps your product is BETTER for the FI community but you came to the Civic forum and Type R forum where there is a MIX of NA and FI.
If you want a cooler engine compartment I think 200 bux can be better spent in routing an AC system to blow under the hood Or to Blow into the Intake System
Can't just say, "I have a great product I know it will be good for you. I just can't tell you HOW much better it will be for you. I just know that it will cost 5 to 10 more than other current products that are meant for the same purpose. I can't tell you how much it will out perform the competition just that it's better." That's no way to Market your product. Marketing IS selling your item.
Apples and oranges you say. What are you doing? Civic and Lemans Cars? You are missing the point of the other products. NO ONE HERE has said that your product is not as you claim. The POINT for the 100000000000th time is that your price is TOO HIGH for the benifits over the average product. It's 15 degrees f in my 300 dollar freezer. I have some Chicken and Steak in there and a bucket of ICE. Freezing point is 32 degrees right? Okay so a guy comes to my Door and says he is marketing a new product. He has this Cryogenic Freezer that is capable of freezing to -100000 K. Says your food will be cooler and and this freezer is better than my current freezer. Says that it is normally 100k dollars but he will sell it to me and the GP for 500 bux. WOW now that's a good deal??? NO cause Why do I need such a Freezer? It's JUST CHICKEN!!!
I never said you said that your product will Free up HP. Furthermore your idea of heat out of site out of mind is flawed in itself.
Take a poll How many people have a cooling problem? How many people are running after market radiators? I'd go out on a limb and say that MOST are running Stock radiators. How about the Old argument of too much of any good thing can be BAD?
I have seen cracked Manifolds due to the use of Heat wrap on the Manifolds.
I'm done with this discussion I am exhausted. Bottom line is that GP thinks it is over priced due in part to the need for it. GP doesn't see the NEED to spend 5 to 10 times what we spend on other products.
If you want to make a better argument we asked for some Numbers. HP, Temp, Product comparisons. You claim that it is Better than Spoon Tape or Heat wrap and this may be true but HOW MUCH BETTER is the question. You have to convience the GP to spend the extra 160-180 bux for your product. Again I am trying to help you not bust on you. Don't get all offended and lash out at us.
When AEM marketed thier CAI they came with numbers and for the Skeptics they came with the facts and explained HOW it worked.
Perhaps your product is BETTER for the FI community but you came to the Civic forum and Type R forum where there is a MIX of NA and FI.
If you want a cooler engine compartment I think 200 bux can be better spent in routing an AC system to blow under the hood Or to Blow into the Intake System
07-22-2003, 06:46 AM
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Re: Market Research (Spoond TEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoond TEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you want a cooler engine compartment I think 200 bux can be better spent in routing an AC system to blow under the hood Or to Blow into the Intake System
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hmmmmm Not a bad Idea Use the AC to cool the intake charge. Now what do we do with the fuel management?
If you want a cooler engine compartment I think 200 bux can be better spent in routing an AC system to blow under the hood Or to Blow into the Intake System
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hmmmmm Not a bad Idea Use the AC to cool the intake charge. Now what do we do with the fuel management?
07-22-2003, 02:18 PM
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Re: Market Research (Spoond TEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoond TEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm done with this discussion I am exhausted.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
wrap yo seld up with sp00n tape then, hahahahaahahahh
I'm done with this discussion I am exhausted.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
wrap yo seld up with sp00n tape then, hahahahaahahahh
07-22-2003, 03:04 PM
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Re: Market Research (spoon_ek9)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoon_ek9 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
that is a special material that can withstand 3000F. the same turbo heat heat will be found on Audi R8 in American Le Mans series and Cart series.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
3000F is above the melting point of cast iron. . . why would that much insulation be needed? I agree with somebody else who said that they would buy a product for 100 bucks or so that was made with cheaper materials. None of us are going to see temperatures in this range, ever, because none of us are in the Le Mans or Cart series... and only 1 or 2 of us are willing to spend this kind of money for the minimal gains.
Make it not so space-age, make it not so expensive, make it fit under the factory heat-shield and you have a product that will sell like hot-cakes.
Think about these marketing strategies:
1. You have a $300 heat shield, it's so unpopular that you only sell 2 in 3 months. Thats 600 bucks. Nice.
2. You have a $75 heat shield and you are able to market to average joes like us (and there are millions of us). You sell 100 units in 3 months that 7,500.
Which one is better?
Theres nothing stopping you from doing both.
By the way. I really, REALLY want an effective heat shield. I am willing to spend about 100 on it. What can you offer me?
that is a special material that can withstand 3000F. the same turbo heat heat will be found on Audi R8 in American Le Mans series and Cart series.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
3000F is above the melting point of cast iron. . . why would that much insulation be needed? I agree with somebody else who said that they would buy a product for 100 bucks or so that was made with cheaper materials. None of us are going to see temperatures in this range, ever, because none of us are in the Le Mans or Cart series... and only 1 or 2 of us are willing to spend this kind of money for the minimal gains.
Make it not so space-age, make it not so expensive, make it fit under the factory heat-shield and you have a product that will sell like hot-cakes.
Think about these marketing strategies:
1. You have a $300 heat shield, it's so unpopular that you only sell 2 in 3 months. Thats 600 bucks. Nice.
2. You have a $75 heat shield and you are able to market to average joes like us (and there are millions of us). You sell 100 units in 3 months that 7,500.
Which one is better?
Theres nothing stopping you from doing both.
By the way. I really, REALLY want an effective heat shield. I am willing to spend about 100 on it. What can you offer me?
07-22-2003, 03:05 PM
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Re: (tangb2023)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tangb2023 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">rather buy header wrap.. cheaper.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Doesn't header wrap crack your headers?
The concept behind this product(franks product) is a good one.. Hot exhaust gases kept inside your exhaust system, and keeping that heat inside your exhaust system, help keep the gases flow rate at a high level. Slower exhuast gas flow = less power. When the exhaust gas cools down even a few degrees it slows down and results in loss of high rpm horse power... So by keeping the gas hot(or loosing as little heat as possible) all the way to your muffler is a good idea.
The heat trappped by this product doesn't get trapped in the engine, it gets trapped in the exhaust, where it belongs, thus not being in your engine compartment, or in your engine..
For a wrap of some sort the went from my head to mymuffler I would be willing to pay as mush as 350$-450, but for something that covers my header only I would not pay more the $100..
Doesn't header wrap crack your headers?
The concept behind this product(franks product) is a good one.. Hot exhaust gases kept inside your exhaust system, and keeping that heat inside your exhaust system, help keep the gases flow rate at a high level. Slower exhuast gas flow = less power. When the exhaust gas cools down even a few degrees it slows down and results in loss of high rpm horse power... So by keeping the gas hot(or loosing as little heat as possible) all the way to your muffler is a good idea.
The heat trappped by this product doesn't get trapped in the engine, it gets trapped in the exhaust, where it belongs, thus not being in your engine compartment, or in your engine..
For a wrap of some sort the went from my head to mymuffler I would be willing to pay as mush as 350$-450, but for something that covers my header only I would not pay more the $100..
07-23-2003, 12:03 AM
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Re: (92 civic VX B18c)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92 civic VX B18c »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Doesn't header wrap crack your headers?
The concept behind this product(franks product) is a good one.. Hot exhaust gases kept inside your exhaust system, and keeping that heat inside your exhaust system, help keep the gases flow rate at a high level. Slower exhuast gas flow = less power. When the exhaust gas cools down even a few degrees it slows down and results in loss of high rpm horse power... So by keeping the gas hot(or loosing as little heat as possible) all the way to your muffler is a good idea.
The heat trappped by this product doesn't get trapped in the engine, it gets trapped in the exhaust, where it belongs, thus not being in your engine compartment, or in your engine..
For a wrap of some sort the went from my head to mymuffler I would be willing to pay as mush as 350$-450, but for something that covers my header only I would not pay more the $100..</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thought I'd walk away, but this person brings up a good point and like I said, TOO MUCH OF ANY GOOD THING ID NOT GOOD!!!!!
Header wrap holds heat inside the exhaust system for this very reason sometimes you have cracks forming. Basically it's an insulating system One products insulates better than the other. Header wrap cause cracks in the header due to excessive heat and the Space age product will be even worse.
You also agreed with most here and that is that the product is too expensive.
Further more the product that is being researched here only covers one side of the header so HOW can it be effective in "Isolating" the heat? He said that a second shield can be customized but to my understanding the 180-200 was just for the one side thus implying that a second part would be EXTRA $$$
Faster gas exhaust etc etc will result in a lesser TORQUE output. Give and take. It's all about balance. and this is considering that the product works like you THINK it might work. Furthermore a product that runs from the head to the muffler would probably be over a grand.
Think about the ADVERSE effects of OVER insulating.
Sure I am using the Spoon Tape and I have never had a problem with my oil temp going too high. IT WAS ONLY 20 bux I got my monies' worth. Does the job it was intended to do and a reasonable price.
Spoon says they use this tape as sometimes the heat is so much that the oil is literally cooked to the oil pan and this product will prevent that. Isn't that what you want?
Doesn't header wrap crack your headers?
The concept behind this product(franks product) is a good one.. Hot exhaust gases kept inside your exhaust system, and keeping that heat inside your exhaust system, help keep the gases flow rate at a high level. Slower exhuast gas flow = less power. When the exhaust gas cools down even a few degrees it slows down and results in loss of high rpm horse power... So by keeping the gas hot(or loosing as little heat as possible) all the way to your muffler is a good idea.
The heat trappped by this product doesn't get trapped in the engine, it gets trapped in the exhaust, where it belongs, thus not being in your engine compartment, or in your engine..
For a wrap of some sort the went from my head to mymuffler I would be willing to pay as mush as 350$-450, but for something that covers my header only I would not pay more the $100..</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thought I'd walk away, but this person brings up a good point and like I said, TOO MUCH OF ANY GOOD THING ID NOT GOOD!!!!!
Header wrap holds heat inside the exhaust system for this very reason sometimes you have cracks forming. Basically it's an insulating system One products insulates better than the other. Header wrap cause cracks in the header due to excessive heat and the Space age product will be even worse.
You also agreed with most here and that is that the product is too expensive.
Further more the product that is being researched here only covers one side of the header so HOW can it be effective in "Isolating" the heat? He said that a second shield can be customized but to my understanding the 180-200 was just for the one side thus implying that a second part would be EXTRA $$$
Faster gas exhaust etc etc will result in a lesser TORQUE output. Give and take. It's all about balance. and this is considering that the product works like you THINK it might work. Furthermore a product that runs from the head to the muffler would probably be over a grand.
Think about the ADVERSE effects of OVER insulating.
Sure I am using the Spoon Tape and I have never had a problem with my oil temp going too high. IT WAS ONLY 20 bux I got my monies' worth. Does the job it was intended to do and a reasonable price.
Spoon says they use this tape as sometimes the heat is so much that the oil is literally cooked to the oil pan and this product will prevent that. Isn't that what you want?
08-01-2003, 07:29 PM
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Re: (Spoond TEG)
I have been wanting an aftermarket heat shield for the longest time. I really hope you would make one. I would like a heat shield that would fit a Comptech D-Series header. I would prefer the aftermarket heat shield to look close to stock. Aftermarket headers do generate more heat than factory headers, and it would be nice to reduce underhood temperatures.
After reading the excellent idea you have, I was a bit disappointed with some of the negative responses. Perhaps you should post this topic in the Road Racing/Autocross forum. I guess most people just aren't smart enough to understand the benefits of a heat shield. Thermal wraps decrease the life of headers and are ugly, so I would never use thermal wrap on my headers. And yes, I would be willing to spend $180-$200 provided it is a high quality product.
After reading the excellent idea you have, I was a bit disappointed with some of the negative responses. Perhaps you should post this topic in the Road Racing/Autocross forum. I guess most people just aren't smart enough to understand the benefits of a heat shield. Thermal wraps decrease the life of headers and are ugly, so I would never use thermal wrap on my headers. And yes, I would be willing to spend $180-$200 provided it is a high quality product.
08-01-2003, 10:07 PM
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Re: (EricUSC)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EricUSC »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have been wanting an aftermarket heat shield for the longest time. I really hope you would make one. I would like a heat shield that would fit a Comptech D-Series header. I would prefer the aftermarket heat shield to look close to stock. Aftermarket headers do generate more heat than factory headers, and it would be nice to reduce underhood temperatures.
After reading the excellent idea you have, I was a bit disappointed with some of the negative responses. Perhaps you should post this topic in the Road Racing/Autocross forum. I guess most people just aren't smart enough to understand the benefits of a heat shield. Thermal wraps decrease the life of headers and are ugly, so I would never use thermal wrap on my headers. And yes, I would be willing to spend $180-$200 provided it is a high quality product.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You are the minority on that matter. Most people including myself are NOT saying that there is no use for some kind of heat shield or "Heat Isolating" method. Just that 180 to 200 is a bit pricey.
Why do you think Thermal wrap decreases the life of the header? Insulating the heat inside the header leads to cracks in the metal. Will this product be better or worse? IF the shield is used on both front and behind the header and does the same thing (only better) as the heat wrap then it would be safe to say that this product would also decrease the life of the header and most likely at a faster rate since it insulates better.
After reading the excellent idea you have, I was a bit disappointed with some of the negative responses. Perhaps you should post this topic in the Road Racing/Autocross forum. I guess most people just aren't smart enough to understand the benefits of a heat shield. Thermal wraps decrease the life of headers and are ugly, so I would never use thermal wrap on my headers. And yes, I would be willing to spend $180-$200 provided it is a high quality product.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You are the minority on that matter. Most people including myself are NOT saying that there is no use for some kind of heat shield or "Heat Isolating" method. Just that 180 to 200 is a bit pricey.
Why do you think Thermal wrap decreases the life of the header? Insulating the heat inside the header leads to cracks in the metal. Will this product be better or worse? IF the shield is used on both front and behind the header and does the same thing (only better) as the heat wrap then it would be safe to say that this product would also decrease the life of the header and most likely at a faster rate since it insulates better.
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