DubbleD

i thought these were already being produced??? thats what it says in the new super street.....?

jonas

that heat shield for the header looks like hytechs.

Touch

iTrader: (1)

They can't be that expensive to make; so if you sell them for $100 or less you'll sell a lot more especially if people can tell the difference first hand. just my 2cents

transmission11

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EGStreetHtch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">needs to be average consumer friendly... bring down the price
-Bryan-</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree with what he said and also its not goin to deter cops.

Aquafina

iTrader: (3)

Whats the big damn deal about it? It's a heat shield. Lower engine bay temps, wow, now my hampster won't die from the heat. Unless you can prove it adds power or helps you get better mileage, then I give it a for wasting money on special material.

ChadB

Your product sounds alot better then DEI heat wrap...

spoon_ek9

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChadB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your product sounds alot better then DEI heat wrap... </TD></TR></TABLE>

its definitely better than heat wrap. it has very good result on turbo car that heat wrap can never reach.





Modified by spoon_ek9 at 6:41 PM 7/18/2003

spoon_ek9

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SuperStreetRX7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Whats the big damn deal about it? It's a heat shield. Lower engine bay temps, wow, now my hampster won't die from the heat. Unless you can prove it adds power or helps you get better mileage, then I give it a for wasting money on special material.</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you can't understand what heat will do to your engine and power, then i don't recommend this product to you. what do you think why pro team like Audi R8 in ALMS has a piece of this in their car? for a hampster to live in there and report the engine stat to the driver and pit?

spoon_ek9

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Since aftermarket headers do not include provisions for mounting a heat shield, I don't quite understand how you propose to mount it, especially considering the huge differences between our ITR headers and your turbo headers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thank for the comment
if you can look a little closer to the pic above, the heat shield is bolted on with the stud on the head. we are sure it can be firmly mount the header.

spoon_ek9

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DubbleD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i thought these were already being produced??? thats what it says in the new super street.....?</TD></TR></TABLE>

at this point, all the heat shields are custom made for the customer who want the best stuff avialable in the market fo heat control. most of our serious customers got a piece of this in their cars. if you own a turbo car, you will really really like this product. however, since its in NA, thats why i has this poll. we want to see what price range and response from you guys.

Spoond TEG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoon_ek9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
that is a special material that can withstand 3000F. the same turbo heat heat will be found on Audi R8 in American Le Mans series and Cart series.

the finish product should be in darker color to reduce attention. However, the main point is that the cop can't prove you that you have an illegal aftermarket header(why would people want a JDM 4-1 header if they can get better performance from other header?) it is same reason on cam gear. the cop can't open up your valve cover to prove you have a cam gear, so do the heat shield.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is it that Bad in Cali??

I would argue that the police wouldn't know the difference between the Illegal vs the legal After market Header. They will give you a ticket anyway and then it is your responsibility to prove otherwise. Just like when I got pulled over for no Lic Plate in the front. The police assumed that My exhaust was illegal and also that I MIGHT have a gutted Cat and directed me to get an inspection.

Correct me if I am wrong but you Don't have to submit to illegal searches if you don't choose to. Know your rights. You can refuse the search now you may have to go to the station if the police thinks there is a probable cause.

As for the Heat shield on the Oil pan... WELL Spoon Sells a heat shield adhesive specifically for this. It costs about 20 bux and it works JUST FINE.

From a performance stand point I think there should be a balance, if this shield blocks ALL of the heat then you might have problems with cracks in the header just like with some Heat tape applications. Reduce the temp inside the engine bay to effect the intake charge and free up more HP. The gain would be negligable to warrant the 200 dollar price tag. I would argue that the AVRERAGE Honda Street engine will not get any where near the temp of the LaMans cars temp. Not many people here are running their cars in endurance races so you are targeting the WRONG DEMORGRAPHIC. The price? Hmmm 180-200 is a bit pricey when the same or similar results can be achieved for a fraction of that cost.

I like the "Skid plate" to protect the header from damage on lowered cars, but this doesn't even seem to provide that protection

lonefuzzy79

a heat shield would be cool for a race car but for a street car? I don't think its worth it. 200 bucks can be spent elsewhere on a road car and will net better performance than a heat shield, especially when for $80 you can buy header wrap or just home-depot it ghetto style if you really want to. I think it will be a hard sell to a guy that isn't trying to knock .10s of his lap times. Try the road racer forum you will probably get a better response there, or better yet, call grassroots motorsports magazine and buy an ad, I am sure the readers would love it (www.grassrootsmotorsports.com) actually you should all call and get a sub right now, much better than SCC or superstreet orr lots of others......

spoon_ek9

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoond TEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> As for the Heat shield on the Oil pan... WELL Spoon Sells a heat shield adhesive specifically for this. It costs about 20 bux and it works JUST FINE.

From a performance stand point I think there should be a balance, if this shield blocks ALL of the heat then you might have problems with cracks in the header just like with some Heat tape applications. Reduce the temp inside the engine bay to effect the intake charge and free up more HP. The gain would be negligable to warrant the 200 dollar price tag. I would argue that the AVRERAGE Honda Street engine will not get any where near the temp of the LaMans cars temp. Not many people here are running their cars in endurance races so you are targeting the WRONG DEMORGRAPHIC. The price? Hmmm 180-200 is a bit pricey when the same or similar results can be achieved for a fraction of that cost.

I like the "Skid plate" to protect the header from damage on lowered cars, but this doesn't even seem to provide that protection</TD></TR></TABLE>

the spoon oil pan shield is not even close to the result of this. like i said before, this piece is for serious user. oil temp control is very important if you car is upgraded and you want the performance that last. you will be surprised that a stock ITR can reach over 130C/260F oil temp by racing for couple minutes.

Spoond TEG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoon_ek9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the spoon oil pan shield is not even close to the result of this. like i said before, this piece is for serious user. oil temp control is very important if you car is upgraded and you want the performance that last. you will be surprised that a stock ITR can reach over 130C/260F oil temp by racing for couple minutes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So your product is about 10 times the price of the spoon product and you claim that it is 10X's more effective? In that case market that to Spoon as well. Spoon uses thier Heat shield adhesive on thier RACE/ Endurance cars and that doesn't seem to be a problem otherwise they probably would have developed something better. I am SURE that MOST people on this and othe MB don't race as much or as Hard as a Company like Spoon or Speed or some of the others that use the Spoon 20.00 heat shield adhesive.

Speculation thats' all we're getting here. How much Heat does the header emit? How much heat does the Spoon stuff block? How much heat does it NOT block?

It's like you're trying to sell Engine Paint that is good up to 5000 degrees and cost 200 dollars a can when an engine block doesn't get that hot. There are paints out there that are good to 1200 degrees for 7 bux. My point that I am trying to make is that our engines don't get that hot to need a 200 dollar heatshield that blocks 3000 degrees F. I believe that is the point that most here are trying to make.
The Heat will affect the performance to a point and there are other CHEAPER products that will perform the same given the certain amount of heat.

Example: If the engine bay is 500 degrees without the Shield then all you need to have is a shield that is capable up to 500 or 600 degrees. Just because it is capable to 3000 degrees doesn't make it cooler in the engine bay. You said that a Header can get up to 260 F so a 500 degree shield would suffice. I am sure with enough $$ we could make a heat shield of Space shuttle heat tiles and that is probably good for many times more than 3000 degrees F.
Not trying to bust your *****, but agreeing with the consensis of the forum and that is your product is really not needed and especially for that price there are cheaper and just as capable alternatives.

743power

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoond TEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So your product is about 10 times the price of the spoon product and you claim that it is 10X's more effective? In that case market that to Spoon as well. Spoon uses thier Heat shield adhesive on thier RACE/ Endurance cars and that doesn't seem to be a problem otherwise they probably would have developed something better. I am SURE that MOST people on this and othe MB don't race as much or as Hard as a Company like Spoon or Speed or some of the others that use the Spoon 20.00 heat shield adhesive.

Example: If the engine bay is 500 degrees without the Shield then all you need to have is a shield that is capable up to 500 or 600 degrees. Just because it is capable to 3000 degrees doesn't make it cooler in the engine bay. You said that a Header can get up to 260 F so a 500 degree shield would suffice. I am sure with enough $$ we could make a heat shield of Space shuttle heat tiles and that is probably good for many times more than 3000 degrees F.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

1.) What makes you so confident that spoon actually uses that little $3.00 piece of tacky aluminum foil? I doubt either one of us knows what spoon uses on their race cars, but I do know that they made a very $$$$ oil pan out of aluminum with massive heatsinks on it, and they probably wouldnt have done that if they could get away with using the cheezy heat tape.

2.)the original poster said OIL temps reach 265 degrees in race environment. I can tell you straight up that I can burn paper on my header, and paper burns at 400 degrees fahrenheit.

I would definitely be interested in the heatshield, but it's simply not in my budget at all right now. I can definitely understand the price though.

The Destroyer

Ok, how much would it cost to make me a suit of that stuff. You see, we have halloween day at my school, and I want to have the Coolest costume there.

HARHAR

BTW Header wrap works fine for daily driven street cars. 200 is a grip of csh for something liek that. Id spend 130 tops.

Spoond TEG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 743 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

1.) What makes you so confident that spoon actually uses that little $3.00 piece of tacky aluminum foil? I doubt either one of us knows what spoon uses on their race cars, but I do know that they made a very $$$$ oil pan out of aluminum with massive heatsinks on it, and they probably wouldnt have done that if they could get away with using the cheezy heat tape.

2.)the original poster said OIL temps reach 265 degrees in race environment. I can tell you straight up that I can burn paper on my header, and paper burns at 400 degrees fahrenheit.

I would definitely be interested in the heatshield, but it's simply not in my budget at all right now. I can definitely understand the price though. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Spoon uses the Aluminum Heat Sink Pan but not on ALL of their Applications. I know this cause I asked. On of my first questions was if the 20.00 heat tape was really that effective. Spoon builds and rents out cars for racing purposes and in most applications this is what they use. Spoon Stands behind thier products as the best sTREET PERFORMANCE /Race Combo.

You stated that 400 degree blah blah blah.... Now what on earth do you need with a Heat shield that protects to 3000 degrees? If this is 200 bux say dollar for dollar a 500 degree heat shield would perform just fine and at a fraction of the cost.
You are obviously missing the point as well. It's over kill and you are paying for it. PLAIN AND SIMPLE
The price out weighs the benifits of the product. If our engines even came close to putting out 3000 degrees then it may sell better.

A better buy would be a vented hood. Allowing the heat to escape. for 300-400 you can get a Carbon fiber, vented hood which will reduce weight and allow the heat to escape.
Sure Headers conduct a lot of heat but a lot of heat also comes from the Air blowing through the radiator to cool the coolant. The vented hood would exhaust the heat from both the header and the radiator.

Austin

The metal that is being used is Inconel, it's a rather pricey material, it works , but it's pricey.

SlapSmak

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Now, that I <u>would</u> buy. You should market that to the ITR track ****** and ITR H2 racing teams.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that is spoon oil pan heat barrier sheet tape. 28$ for a 18X18 sheet from R&D
that stuff rules

spoon_ek9

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spoond TEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now what on earth do you need with a Heat shield that protects to 3000 degrees? If this is 200 bux say dollar for dollar a 500 degree heat shield would perform just fine and at a fraction of the cost.
You are obviously missing the point as well. It's over kill and you are paying for it. PLAIN AND SIMPLE
The price out weighs the benifits of the product. If our engines even came close to putting out 3000 degrees then it may sell better.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

dude, i think you are the one who miss the point. the benefit of using this heat shield is not because it can withstand 3k F temp. its because the result of the heat isolation. what i meant spoon tape is not even close is direct to that. the heat shield is made with 3 layer of Inconel, thats why its so effective on traping the heat. if you can understand better on how heat control works, then you will understand the heat from the radiator is MUCH less than the heat from the header. again, i know price is the key, thats WHY i have this poll to see whats the price range you guys are looking for.

Mike M

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Now, that I <u>would</u> buy. You should market that to the ITR track ****** and ITR H2 racing teams.</TD></TR></TABLE>

George you know Spoon Sports has had a Piece like that that adheres to your Oil Pan for years now, Its only about $30


From Spoon:
"The oil contained in the oil pan is constantly being heated by the exhaust system, which makes it difficult to reduce oil temperature. However, by applying the heat barrier tape to the oil pan, the oil will be shielded from the exhaust heat and oil temperature rise will be prevented. Comes in 200x300mm sheet."

Austin

Also as a quick FYI...John at HyTech posted information on this http://www.theoldone.com/forum...HIELD However he chose to not sell this product due to some politics related to the company that he had producing the item for him...

Austin

p.s. My header is coated and there is very little head radiated by the oil pan area, however before the turn under the oil pan there is a fair amount of heat...I'm thinking of adding some Thermo-Tech heat shield barrier to the areas that I'm concerned about, cost $20.

jond

I would rather get my header jet-coated for the money.

The Destroyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jond &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would rather get my header jet-coated for the money.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

How much is jet coating anyways.

Spoond TEG

Honestly I do undestand that the Space Age material is better compared to the Spoon tape but the Spoon tape works fine fo this purpose.

I do understand that the header emits more heat than the Radiator, BUT clearly you understand that allowing the heat to escape is more benificial than trapping it next to the engine.

I am not saying that you product doesn't work. Just that you would probably have to reduce the price too much to make it cost effective for others to buy while maintaining your profit margin. If the material itself costs 100 bux then you have to manufacturer it and pay for the labor to do it. your 180 dollar figure is PROBABLY your min Profit figure. General consinsus is that 180 is too much. What is the BARE MIN that you can market this for? Has to be worth your while to build and sell these. Mass production is cheaper than custom jobs but inorder to mass produce you have to have an idea who and how many will sell readily and at what price.
I think Most here MIGHT spend 100 or less on that item. is this good for your profits? Probably not. Just my .02 cents worth.