JPerkMr954

I have been doing a lot of reading for the past few days into the poorman's type r and I'm interested in it. I then began to see that people strayed away from this setup to go ls/vtec because there are kits available now and it has become more reliable of a setup then in earlier years. I myself am looking for reliability and dependability over all but I do want power as this is my daily driver but I am looking for a good platform to start with that later If I so choose I can do more.
Are these 2 indeed the same and if not what are the differences?

B16AGUY

If I'm not mistaken they are pretty close... the Poor man's type R is pretty much a:
B18 Block
Vtec Head (B16, B18C, or even a type R head if you can find one)
Type R Cams

I believe you'll need a an ECU as well... I saw on another site that someone was using a P73 and P73 Pistons but I have no clue if those are necessary as I am by no means a motor pro.

The LS/VTEC is basically an LS block (i.e. B18B) with a Vtec head (B16A is most popular choice)

Deetz

They are NOT the same! Although LS and B20Vtec swaps are popular because they are cheap, a true vtec block still has the advantages.....

by using a true vtec block

- Has the proper oil passages for the vtec head
- "better" reliability for head gasket sealing in the long term
- the mains for the crank are better designed for strength

I am not bashing LSvtec, it's just that a B18C block is the better option out of the two

REDEM1FTW

I don't understand what would make a poor mans r more apealing than a gsr besides I guess a little higher compression? Is the power difference between the two THAT significant?

RCurioso88

man, for the longest time I thought a poor man's Type R is LSVTEC. What's the difference? As for LSVTEC, i've had 2 and I love it! Sure there's a lot of horror stories about them but mine is as reliable as any Honda motor i've owned. If you build them right, they are a lot of fun.

-__-

poor man's type-r is basically a type-r engine when done CORRECTLY. slapping a B16 head on a stock GSR will give u LESS compression. LS/VTEC: B18B/B18A block with a VTEC head. Poor man's type-r: B18C GSR block fitted with type-r pistons, cams, valvetrain, intake manifld and throttle body. thus making it for the most part a type-r engine.

*also the B-series VTEC motors have oil squirters on the block to coat the cylinders. LS do not.

Deetz

Do you know what a poor man's type R is? I never said anything about one being better than another.

A poor mans type R is a B18C block with PR3 head (B16)
A GSR is a B18C block with P72 head (gsr)

They are pretty much the same thing!!!!

An LS vtec is a NON vtec block with either vtec head bolted to it!!

-__-

^^bingo.

94_DC

This is true, the term "Poor Mans R" came from the b16 head being very similar to the Type R head, only difference being a port and polish and some better valve train.

As said before b16 head LOWERS compression.


The reason for LS/Vtec is for more torque and depending on which head more compression.

GranDaddyPurp

if the b16 head lowers the compression on poor mans r, then the pmr would be more ideal for a mild turbo setup correct.

i prefer the ls/vtec when done correctly. my ls/vtec is done right and i have no complaints the horror stories i hear about are more like myths to me.

ls/b20 vtec is awesome

RCurioso88

Same here man. I love my LSVTEC cuz I did it right and pretty much built it to be bullet-proof lol

B16AGUY

If you look at it like that then yes but bear in mind that as others stated a TRUE poor man's R would have the pistons, cams, valvetrain, intake mani etc... swapped with type r ones, so that would bring back up the compression.

Could someone chime in on this as I honestly know very little about this setup so I might be wrong.

tommybdelsol

So I have a 94 del sol and i was thinking of building my d16 but what is this talk of a "poor mans" type R. What does it cost, about to do one of these?

98y8

Like stated above, poor man's type R is a GSR block, with type r pistons with a b16 head with type r valvetrain.

tommybdelsol

I know what it is i was just wondering about how much it costs.

D Griff

It just all depends on where you source all your parts, if you do work yourself, etc. But it would probably cost at least as much as doing a straight GSR swap, probably more.

Deetz

Just to add to that, there is hardly a difference....we are talking 0.1 compression difference, that's it. This could be compensated from just a thinner head gasket

tommybdelsol

Ok cool thanks for your help guys